CVByrne Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yes it does work both ways. There are those who see the bad and the good and acknowledge both, and there are those who are suspicious of the good and concentrate on the bad. Just because it works both ways doesn't mean both ways are of equal merit. A thing I dislike most about forums and discussions like this is grouping of opinions into two camps. Taring people with the same brush. My opinions are my opinions. I have explained why the bad things outweigh the good in my views on Lerner. You are trying to discredit opposing views by saying that they don't see the good and bad, but only you and the Lerner supporters see both sides. This is completely untrue of course. But once you get numbers on your side it's quite easy to proclaim such things. It's differing views on a subject that is just a total shade of grey. With no right or wrong side in the end. Opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2013 The only reason people are even talking about it is because others keep bringing up the past. I'd prefer to concentrate on the NOW. Right now we're in pretty good nick and we're looking up, not down. I think the current level of optimism probably doesn't sit comfortably with some and they just have to keep having a moan by living in the past because they can't currently moan about the present. Which in a way is an inadvertent compliment by them to Lerner Oh I'm very positive BOF about the future under Lambert. I think we've all connected with this team in a way we haven't since MON's first season or two. I think we are all behind this team. Totally behind them and I hope the team grows leaps and bounds this coming season. But my views on Lerner are the club is in this financial mess because of him and his hiring of McLeish was such a monumental mistake that I do not have any faith in him anymore as owner of this club. you cannot link my opinions on our owner to my love of this team, manager and club. I want what's best for us and I think it's with new ownership. The right new ownership. too much has happened for a full reconciliation with Lerner. Like everything on message boards, it's merely opinion. That one is mine. Yeah I accept that and when I say 'others' it's not a sly way of saying 'you'. My post was a general commentary of which you may have fallen into some of the points and not into others. You'll never hear me deny any of the bad stuff Lerner has done. Yes I will try to rationalise some of it and defend a guy who came in completely inexperienced to it all. But going back to the denial of the bad stuff. That's something that positive thinkers tend to get criticised for doing. Even on this very page (or certainly the last one). I think everyone; positive and negative; concedes that Lerner has made mistakes. The only things that differs amongst the fans is 1) the capacity to move on from those mistakes and 2) the willingness to believe he can learn and is learning from those mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So without the benefits of the above you end up with 2 options - what we have ie: a wealthy bloke prepared to invest who yes has made some big mistakes in his time here but has ultimately been of benefit to the club and its supporters OR you have Venky's, Carson Yeung etc. This is the worst post I've read in a long time. So we have Lerner or Venky's they are the only 2 options. If it's not Lerner it can only be Venkys or Yeung Amazingly stupid post. Quite amazing. This is the worst post I've read in a long time. Amazingly arrogant post. Quite amazing. You have said there are only 2 options. Lerner or Venkys etc.. Your post deserved total derision. I'm sorry but it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are there are those who only see the positives.I don't think these people exist. Show me someone who does not see the bad that has happened. Show me one single person who denies that Lerner has ever made a mistake and I'll concede the argument right here and now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 You are trying to discredit opposing views by saying that they don't see the good and bad, but only you and the Lerner supporters see both sides. This is completely untrue of course. But once you get numbers on your side it's quite easy to proclaim such things. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Right, we've all voiced our views, had a nice rant or two. Now let's all go to the pub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2013 A thing I dislike most about forums and discussions like this is grouping of opinions into two camps. Taring people with the same brush. My opinions are my opinions. I have explained why the bad things outweigh the good in my views on Lerner. You are trying to discredit opposing views by saying that they don't see the good and bad, but only you and the Lerner supporters see both sides. This is completely untrue of course. But once you get numbers on your side it's quite easy to proclaim such things. It's differing views on a subject that is just a total shade of grey. With no right or wrong side in the end. Opinion.I didn't put people into 2 camps. BJ did. He said it 'works both ways'. Using his very limited criteria I made a generic positive and a generic negative camp. I'm having a more reasoned discussion with you outside of that one where I think we both understand each other. The BJ chat is still mired in an earlier state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are there are those who only see the positives.I don't think these people exist. Show me someone who does not see the bad that has happened. Show me one single person who denies that Lerner has ever made a mistake and I'll concede the argument right here and now. Sorry. I should have worded it like you. there are those who are suspicious of the bad and concentrate on the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2013 You are trying to discredit opposing views by saying that they don't see the good and bad, but only you and the Lerner supporters see both sides. This is completely untrue of course. But once you get numbers on your side it's quite easy to proclaim such things.Well said.Irony explosion. You're the one who created 2 camps. I just tried to adapt your own statement. Which in fairness is probably not the greatest idea I've ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are there are those who only see the positives.I don't think these people exist. Show me someone who does not see the bad that has happened. Show me one single person who denies that Lerner has ever made a mistake and I'll concede the argument right here and now.Sorry. I should have worded it like you.there are those who are suspicious of the bad and concentrate on the good.You do realise that your original statement and your 're-worded' statement mean 2 completely different things yeah? I'm now genuinely thinking that the English language might be the cause for some of the disagreements in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I was pointing out to those complaining about the same old posters repeating themselves that others did the same with the opposite viewpoint. You seem to have reached the conclusion I've tried to create two camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are there are those who only see the positives.I don't think these people exist. Show me someone who does not see the bad that has happened. Show me one single person who denies that Lerner has ever made a mistake and I'll concede the argument right here and now.Sorry. I should have worded it like you.there are those who are suspicious of the bad and concentrate on the good.You do realise that your original statement and your 're-worded' statement mean 2 completely different things yeah? I'm now genuinely thinking that the English language might be the cause for some of the disagreements in this discussion. Yes I do thanks. I was changing my original statement as like you said there aren't people who have ignored all negatives. I should have worded it differently the first time. Another little hidden dig. Wonder how many warning points that would have got me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2013 No sorry it's not a dig at all. It's a statement of fact. If you keep posting crap I can and will comment on that crap. I'll keep it about the content, that OK with you yeah?EDIT : If you're trying to say something then say it. Don't say something completely different and then say 'I should have worded it differently'. This is a message board. The only thing I have to go on is the message that you post. If you are posting something different to what you were trying to say then what chance has anyone of knowing what the hell you're trying to actually say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Its quite simple, some people will not be happy unless we are spending shit loads of cash on players. It doesn't matter where it comes from or what negative effect it might have on the club they will say Lerner is a decent owner if he does that. Edited June 18, 2013 by VillaForever1970 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The grass isnt always greenerthat implies of course that some of the time it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 No sorry it's not a dig at all. It's a statement of fact. If you keep posting crap I can and will comment on that crap. I'll keep it about the content, that OK with you yeah? That's fine. I'll comment on the crap you post. I just won't hint you don't understand the language. Because no doubt a dig like that would earn me a warning point or two. I changed my statement which you rightly said was wrong so not sure why the dig was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Helenius in now. Another hot yet cheap, young prospect signed in June! But if he fails (cross fingers) I'm going to be on here every day blaming Randy. Why? Cuz I'm a cuuuunt. That why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Its quite simple, some people will not be happy unless we are spending shit loads of cash on players. It doesn't matter where it comes from or what negative effect it might have on the club they will say Lerner is a decent owner if he does that. There aren't many who have expressed this view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 People are going in loops now. I think we all know each others positions now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 People are going in loops now. I think we all know each others positions now. I don't, do you like Lerner or not?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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