The Randy Lerner thread

[BOF]

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

 

That is the common problem with discussions on forums. I'd be massively guilty of similar stuff in years past. But I'm far more open minded, pragmatic and analytical. Mainly down the financial gains listening to others opinions can yield in horse race betting.

 

My opinions on Lerner now are not intransigent views from the acrimonious ending of the MON era as they used to be. I see MON was and is a football dinosaur. I think his strong personality was a factor in Lerner not running the club correctly. Not getting in a proper CEO to run the place for years. 

 

As for the corrections of the wage bill, how do you know it's Lerner learning from mistakes. It clearly has big link to Financial fair Play rules etc.. Lambert he did get in. which he can take some credit for but given his record on past managers it's hard to think it wasn't more than a large slice of convenient timing and luck on Lerners part. 

 

It boils down to nobody really making any strong cases for him being a competent owner bar his financial input in signings in years past. Putting money in is probably the easiest thing to do. running a club is much more than that.

 

We are where we are because of him. There is no denying that, we can lay blame at manager or others but he is the man in charge of those who work for him. He has a huge amount to prove before I have any faith in him to bring us forward long term.

That's the other thing people do. They put the good stuff down to luck but not the bad stuff. The bad stuff they say is a lack of judgement, yet the good stuff wasn't good judgement. To me it reads slightly like double standards to protect an opinion. You ask 'how I know' that reducing the wage bill is Lerner learning. How do you know it isn't? We don't know, but what it IS definite is that the reduction in the wage bill has us in better shape and it is Lerner that is doing it. I choose to believe that he is doing it for the right reasons and there's no actual evidence to say otherwise. Others can choose to spin it negatively. Particularly if they are coming from the perspective that he's not a good owner. It would make sense for them to spin it negatively.

[Big_John_10]

The classics are out again. "We all make mistakes" and "he tried". Never have I known such pathetic excuses thrown out to defend a person at the club. Plenty of managers and players who underp perform are rightly criticised but not with Randy.

How Doug must have wished he'd had a tattoo and handed out the odd flag.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Big_John_10

[Risso]

 

 

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

 

That is the common problem with discussions on forums. I'd be massively guilty of similar stuff in years past. But I'm far more open minded, pragmatic and analytical. Mainly down the financial gains listening to others opinions can yield in horse race betting.

 

My opinions on Lerner now are not intransigent views from the acrimonious ending of the MON era as they used to be. I see MON was and is a football dinosaur. I think his strong personality was a factor in Lerner not running the club correctly. Not getting in a proper CEO to run the place for years. 

 

As for the corrections of the wage bill, how do you know it's Lerner learning from mistakes. It clearly has big link to Financial fair Play rules etc.. Lambert he did get in. which he can take some credit for but given his record on past managers it's hard to think it wasn't more than a large slice of convenient timing and luck on Lerners part. 

 

It boils down to nobody really making any strong cases for him being a competent owner bar his financial input in signings in years past. Putting money in is probably the easiest thing to do. running a club is much more than that.

 

We are where we are because of him. There is no denying that, we can lay blame at manager or others but he is the man in charge of those who work for him. He has a huge amount to prove before I have any faith in him to bring us forward long term.

 

That's the other thing people do. They put the good stuff down to luck but not the bad stuff. The bad stuff they say is a lack of judgement, yet the good stuff wasn't good judgement. To me it reads slightly like double standards to protect an opinion. You ask 'how I know' that reducing the wage bill is Lerner learning. How do you know it isn't? We don't know, but what it IS definite is that the reduction in the wage bill has us in better shape and it is Lerner that is doing it. I choose to believe that he is doing it for the right reasons and there's no actual evidence to say otherwise. Others can choose to spin it negatively. Particularly if they are coming from the perspective that he's not a good owner. It would make sense for them to spin it negatively.

 

 

 

There are plenty of quotes from the likes of Paul Lambert saying that we can't afford big transfer fees or wages.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

The classics are out again. "We all make mistakes" and "he tried". Never have I known such pathetic excuses thrown out to defend a person at the club. Plenty of managers and players who underp perform are rightly criticised but not with Randy.

How Doug must have wished he'd had a tattoo and handed out the odd flag.

You honestly think the tattoo and the flags have any baring whatsoever on my opinion of him currently?

The same old condescending shite from the same posters. A shame really.

[SikhInTrinity]

Who has not criticised Randy, he has lost plenty of support that he originally had after employing McLeish, all i would say is have look up North and see the appointment they have made, making same mistakes over and over, Randy seems to be on the right track, which doesn't mean he will not make any in the future. The model he put in AVFC was unsustainable, we didn't complain at the time when he was flashing the cash either.

[BOF]

There are plenty of quotes from the likes of Paul Lambert saying that we can't afford big transfer fees or wages.

That just confirms we're deliberately bringing down the wage bill.

[SikhInTrinity]

 

 

 

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

 

That is the common problem with discussions on forums. I'd be massively guilty of similar stuff in years past. But I'm far more open minded, pragmatic and analytical. Mainly down the financial gains listening to others opinions can yield in horse race betting.

 

My opinions on Lerner now are not intransigent views from the acrimonious ending of the MON era as they used to be. I see MON was and is a football dinosaur. I think his strong personality was a factor in Lerner not running the club correctly. Not getting in a proper CEO to run the place for years. 

 

As for the corrections of the wage bill, how do you know it's Lerner learning from mistakes. It clearly has big link to Financial fair Play rules etc.. Lambert he did get in. which he can take some credit for but given his record on past managers it's hard to think it wasn't more than a large slice of convenient timing and luck on Lerners part. 

 

It boils down to nobody really making any strong cases for him being a competent owner bar his financial input in signings in years past. Putting money in is probably the easiest thing to do. running a club is much more than that.

 

We are where we are because of him. There is no denying that, we can lay blame at manager or others but he is the man in charge of those who work for him. He has a huge amount to prove before I have any faith in him to bring us forward long term.

 

That's the other thing people do. They put the good stuff down to luck but not the bad stuff. The bad stuff they say is a lack of judgement, yet the good stuff wasn't good judgement. To me it reads slightly like double standards to protect an opinion. You ask 'how I know' that reducing the wage bill is Lerner learning. How do you know it isn't? We don't know, but what it IS definite is that the reduction in the wage bill has us in better shape and it is Lerner that is doing it. I choose to believe that he is doing it for the right reasons and there's no actual evidence to say otherwise. Others can choose to spin it negatively. Particularly if they are coming from the perspective that he's not a good owner. It would make sense for them to spin it negatively.

 

 

 

There are plenty of quotes from the likes of Paul Lambert saying that we can't afford big transfer fees or wages.

 

 

There is also plenty of quotes from Lambert saying, I want players who want to play first and foremost not coming here looking for a paycheque. This is just as much as Lamberts policy than it is Randy's.

[BOF]

The classics are out again. "We all make mistakes" and "he tried". Never have I known such pathetic excuses thrown out to defend a person at the club. Plenty of managers and players who underp perform are rightly criticised but not with Randy.

How Doug must have wished he'd had a tattoo and handed out the odd flag.

You honestly think the tattoo and the flags have any baring whatsoever on my opinion of him currently?

The same old condescending shite from the same posters. A shame really.

It wasn't a particularly helpful or constructive post to the discussion to start with so the throwaway line at the end was just dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

[Big_John_10]

The classics are out again. "We all make mistakes" and "he tried". Never have I known such pathetic excuses thrown out to defend a person at the club. Plenty of managers and players who underp perform are rightly criticised but not with Randy.

How Doug must have wished he'd had a tattoo and handed out the odd flag.

You honestly think the tattoo and the flags have any baring whatsoever on my opinion of him currently?

The same old condescending shite from the same posters. A shame really.

I don't really know.

It has to be something like that though because the football side of things seems to be ignored.

Some seem pleased we're aiming to become the sort of club we were under Doug, which was deemed unacceptable. Strange.

[Ironsid]

I think Lerner has learned from his mistakes because he has altered course. Buying high wage bench warmers and underachievers has failed and put us in a dire financial situation so, instead of ploughing on in the same doom ridden fashion he and his team have gone down the route we are now following.

Because I'm only a supporter and not a financial genius or expert on the workings of football clubs I'm afraid I take a fairly simplistic view. I hope for a huge improvement in our onfield performance next season. I'm not happy with what we've endured in the last few seasons but I'm not qualified to say which of the myriad potential buyers could do a better job than Lerner. If he can't bring about the upturn in our fortunes we want then he should sell to the next messiah. At the moment he's the bloke calling the shots. I hope he calls the right ones.

[Feidhlim]

Lerner came in and hired a manager who was meant to be one of the best around. MON was tipped to be the next Man U manager at the time.

 

He went off and bought Emile Heskey for 7 million and Curtis Davis for 9 million. He was the one who paid Reo-Coker ~35k per week.

 

When RL tried to curb the spending, MON said f*ck this.

 

 

RL made a balls of hiring McLeish. Granted. (though if rumour is believed that was on Faulkners advice)

 

 

RL has put money into the stadium and the players

RL has never publically spoken out of turn or embarassed AVFC

RL has ensured Villa conduct themselves ethically

RL has learnt from his mistakes and hired a manager tasked with signing young, cheap, exciting players capable of playing exciting football

Edited June 18, 2013 by Feidhlim

[BOF]

RL made a balls of hiring McLeish. Granted. (though if rumour is believed that was on Faulkners advice)

And Fergies (the bar steward!)

[Big_John_10]

RL has put money into the stadium and the players

RL has never publically spoken out of turn or embarassed AVFC

RL has ensured Villa conduct themselves ethically

RL has learnt from his mistakes and hired a manager tasked with signing young, cheap, exciting players capable of playing exciting football

RL allowed wages to spiral out of control.

RL hired houllier

RL paid Birmingham city compensation for Mcleish.

RL hired Mcleish.

RL has paid £16 million in compensation for his bad decision making

RL has seen us have 3 consecutive seasons where relegation was a worry.

RL has seen us have our two worst ever premiership seasons, which just so happen to be our last 2.

[pacbuddies]

RL is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy!

[bannedfromHandV]

 

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

 

That is the common problem with discussions on forums. I'd be massively guilty of similar stuff in years past. But I'm far more open minded, pragmatic and analytical. Mainly down the financial gains listening to others opinions can yield in horse race betting.

 

My opinions on Lerner now are not intransigent views from the acrimonious ending of the MON era as they used to be. I see MON was and is a football dinosaur. I think his strong personality was a factor in Lerner not running the club correctly. Not getting in a proper CEO to run the place for years. 

 

As for the corrections of the wage bill, how do you know it's Lerner learning from mistakes. It clearly has big link to Financial fair Play rules etc.. Lambert he did get in. which he can take some credit for but given his record on past managers it's hard to think it wasn't more than a large slice of convenient timing and luck on Lerners part. 

 

It boils down to nobody really making any strong cases for him being a competent owner bar his financial input in signings in years past. Putting money in is probably the easiest thing to do. running a club is much more than that.

 

We are where we are because of him. There is no denying that, we can lay blame at manager or others but he is the man in charge of those who work for him. He has a huge amount to prove before I have any faith in him to bring us forward long term. 

 

 

 

Yes, highly objective.

[Feidhlim]

 

RL has put money into the stadium and the players

RL has never publically spoken out of turn or embarassed AVFC

RL has ensured Villa conduct themselves ethically

RL has learnt from his mistakes and hired a manager tasked with signing young, cheap, exciting players capable of playing exciting football

RL allowed wages to spiral out of control.

RL hired houllier

RL paid Birmingham city compensation for Mcleish.

RL hired Mcleish.

RL has paid £16 million in compensation for his bad decision making

RL has seen us have 3 consecutive seasons where relegation was a worry.

RL has seen us have our two worst ever premiership seasons, which just so happen to be our last 2.

 

 

 

RL allowed wages to spiral out of control.   - Based on MONs assurances that the players signed would get them champions league presumably?

RL hired houllier  - Are we judging Houllier? He hardly had enough time? But in any case, Houllier had the perfect CV. I think most people would have hired him?

RL paid Birmingham city compensation for Mcleish.  - And?

RL hired Mcleish.  - I already acknowledged he made a balls of this. His CV is crap and he was crap.

RL has paid £16 million in compensation for his bad decision making  - Source? And can you clarify? Managers, players?

RL has seen us have 3 consecutive seasons where relegation was a worry.   - Managers fault. Each of the managers were backed by RL.

RL has seen us have our two worst ever premiership seasons, which just so happen to be our last 2.   - Again, I would blame the managers on this one. But perhaps you're right, next season has relegation written all over it   

 

[Big_John_10]

I'm sure I've seen people who defend Lerner on him heavily criticise and even abuse certain players and ex managers which just seems strange.

I mean who has more influence on this club Hutton or Lerner? Heskey or Lerner? Mcleish or Lerner.

Yet the one with all the power and the most influence is excuses when it goes horribly wrong.

[Feidhlim]

I'm sure I've seen people who defend Lerner on him heavily criticise and even abuse certain players and ex managers which just seems strange.

I mean who has more influence on this club Hutton or Lerner? Heskey or Lerner? Mcleish or Lerner.

Yet the one with all the power and the most influence is excuses when it goes horribly wrong.

 

I've acknowledged that he made mistakes. But lets be clear, the managers sign the players. If Lerner signed them you would giving out again, I'm sure.

 

Lets look at this another way- pick a few teams who have had better chairmen in the last 3 years. We can all google them and find issues on how they let their club down.

 

Lerner isn't perfect, but he is damn better than the majority out there and I think he has good intentions to move the club forward.

[BOF]

We've been over this countless times. He over-trusted MON. MON took him to the cleaners. Lerner was completely naïve. That was a massive mistake on Lerner's part. We get that. How many times do we all have to agree on that? We've spent the past seasons trying to recover from it and we now look like we're doing so. That's where the learning comes in. Why is it that as soon as we come close to something approximating acknowledgement that we're doing well now and that Lerner might need some credit for that - someone has to once again go back to the tried and tested "Duh yeah but what about MON". It's tiring.

[bannedfromHandV]

The classics are out again. "We all make mistakes" and "he tried". Never have I known such pathetic excuses thrown out to defend a person at the club. Plenty of managers and players who underp perform are rightly criticised but not with Randy.

How Doug must have wished he'd had a tattoo and handed out the odd flag.

 

What would you prefer, someone who doesn't try at all and never makes any mistakes?!?! Seems you might be searching for that someone for a long time.