Risso Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I still have a big dislike for Randy Lerner for his near catastrophic mismanagement of this club. It would take actual investment on his part in the playing staff to change my views. Every penny he's put into the clum has been in the form of low interest loans. Lets not forget that. I don't know the exact details of his investment here, but I know that is wrong. You don't know the details of his investment but know that's wrong? Go figure. As Risso will remember a few years back all the details of his "investment" in the club became public. All money he has put in was in the form of low interest loans paying 2% + Libor interest. Sorry mate, but you've got this a teensy bit, (OK, a lot ), wrong. Lerner has put money into the club split roughly 50:50 between equity and loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Lerne has made his fair share of mistakes but seems to be putting them right with Lambert and backing him in the transfer market. I stopped right there. Why? Re-reading what i wrote i guess it could be misconstrued. I was more trying to point out that lamberts transfers (for the most part) are low fee's/low wages and potential where as in th past it has been the complete opposite. If Lerner was as stupid as some make out then we would have mark hughes or someone of that ilk in charge blowing money on sub par premiership players. All indications are that Lerner has learnt from that approach hence the massive change over the last 2 years in the way the club is being run. Its to early to tell one way or the other at the moment. The only definitive answer will come when the Window slams shut, so im happy to wait and see. Im only basing my ideas on Lambert s quotes and the way the club has been run for the last couple of seasons, and the fact his lost interest since the divorce. Its no coincidence our fortunes changed at the same time. But who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 17, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2013 I still have a big dislike for Randy Lerner for his near catastrophic mismanagement of this club. It would take actual investment on his part in the playing staff to change my views. Every penny he's put into the clum has been in the form of low interest loans. Lets not forget that. I don't know the exact details of his investment here, but I know that is wrong. You don't know the details of his investment but know that's wrong? Go figure. As Risso will remember a few years back all the details of his "investment" in the club became public. All money he has put in was in the form of low interest loans paying 2% + Libor interest. CV, I think you're missing the point - yes Lerner put money into the club in the form of loans and yes they were at the rates of interest you've listed - but at the same time he also put money directly into the club. No one's saying he didn't make the loans, it's just not the only thing he did - and, he's now written off the interest on those loans. He may have wasted just about all of it, but he's put a lot of money into the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Is there any up to date account info Risso? Seems odd the only thing I can find is from 2008 accounts. My gut says he's getting the club back on a financially attractive footing for a sale. Especially as the new tv deal etc.. will be putting our accounts into the black. Edited June 17, 2013 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 17, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2013 Is there any up to date account info Risso? Seems odd the only thing I can find is from 2008 accounts. My gut says he's getting the club back on a financially attractive footing for a sale. Especially as the new tv deal etc.. will be putting our accounts into the black. I suspect there's nowt wrong with your gut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 At the end of the day we'll all have our own opinions of Lerner. I just can't get over his mismanagment of the club and the appointment of McLeish. We've come to far, I don't think it's a relationship that can be healed. I'd like him to go and just do right by us and find the right new owner. Opinions are opinions. That is my one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If the future becomes as bright as it is looking at the moment and Lerner shows he cares and can put right his past mistakes I don't see why the majority of Villa fans wouldn't forgive him. Only those with an agenda will continue to put him down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Can you elaborate on what you mean by "an agenda"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Some people will have formed their opinion of Randy and no good he does in the future will make a difference. They'll want him out purely, for example, because he hired McLeish in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If the future becomes as bright as it is looking at the moment and Lerner shows he cares and can put right his past mistakes I don't see why the majority of Villa fans wouldn't forgive him. Only those with an agenda will continue to put him down. I'm still with CV on this one. We've had three successive years of battling relegation and selling our best players. If Lambert hadn't found the gem of the year in Benteke, we'd have been relegated. We have to hope that the policy of only buying cheap, young players proves successful where it's failed for the likes of Wigan. Lerner's got a long way to go until he's back in the black financially, and also for making up for past mistakes when running the club as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 That's fine. I know he's made mistakes, but I'm also open to him proving over the next season or so with Lambert that we've turned a corner, he's learned from his mistakes and we're moving forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Staying up gives us/him a chance of turning things round, going down would seriously have scuppered us. There can't be many industries where you can make such a catalogue of mistakes and then a third party over which you have no sway comes along and chucks a skipful of money at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) If the future becomes as bright as it is looking at the moment and Lerner shows he cares and can put right his past mistakes I don't see why the majority of Villa fans wouldn't forgive him. Only those with an agenda will continue to put him down. And those with a different agenda will have no problems with the performance of the club, or if they do, lay a small portion of the blame on the man who owns the club. Lerner has put money into the club but let's no forget how cheap he purchased us for. Around £40 million for a club like us is ridiculous. While putting in money he'll know full well the value of the club will be a lot higher than £40 million when he comes to sell it. Edited June 17, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It would be nice to think that Lerner has somehow transformed into an entirely different person, who suddenly understands how to run a football club and not waste his money in the most alarming fashion. But it is hard to believe this will actually come true. If what's being said in the Bent thread is correct, he is just about to write off £12m capital at least on selling Bent for a song. This is a bellwether for the lack of sensible and sustained investment strategy that he has presided over. He got lucky with Lambert and Lambert got lucky with Benteke but we can't expect that to be a regular thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 just for the financial posts above. Randy put in around £105m as equity (ie: doesn't have to be paid back). He also put in around £105m as loans with low interest rates (Libor +2%). He never took any of the interest over the years of the loans, and as at last year this had added up to £21mill interest owed in total. Randy then wrote off this £21mill, in effect giving all his loans interest-free. Overall hit to Randy - £64m to buy club +£105m equity + £21m interest write-off = £190m. plus £105m loan still outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I dont want us to be a club that constantly sells our best players.I dont want us to be a feeder club for the big boys in the PL. I would like Lerner to either sell or give the $$$ to be a mid table club at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'm glad the myth that he's only given us money in the form of loans has been debunked (again). The shareholder loans were low interest, junior debt which effectively means they were equity injections anyway; this is especially so with the waiving of interest. BJ10, it's been calculated previously that, whilst RL bought the club for 40M, he'd have to sell for an awful lot more in order to recoup the initial outlay plus all of the money pumped in thus far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 just for the financial posts above. Randy put in around £105m as equity (ie: doesn't have to be paid back). He also put in around £105m as loans with low interest rates (Libor +2%). He never took any of the interest over the years of the loans, and as at last year this had added up to £21mill interest owed in total. Randy then wrote off this £21mill, in effect giving all his loans interest-free. Overall hit to Randy - £64m to buy club +£105m equity + £21m interest write-off = £190m. plus £105m loan still outstanding. Well with those figures. he's just not going to let that continue. Lets hope he does still care and not sell us without finding a decent owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I don't think anyone can seriously question Lerner's financial commitment to the club. Yes, question his wisdom for giving O'Neill such a free reign, yes, wonder what on gods earth made him think it was a smart idea to appoint Alex McLeish, but the guy has put his own money in in spades. To me that says he does care. He just knows we need to be run differently now. Fine by me. I'm in no rush to see the back of him, the grass ain't always greener... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I look forward to becoming what we were for Doug's time in the prem but this time the owner being praised for his brilliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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