Popular Post markavfc40 Posted October 24, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) My first comments on VT since getting back from Villa Park. Would have been sooner but I have been at my father in laws 60th birthday do.Understandable that the Sherwood thread has gone mad but he is pretty much an irrelevance now though so I have chose to comment in the thread related to the man truly responsible for where we stand.Since 2011 this man has run the club in such a way that any manager would have struggled. He gave McLeish a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and asked him to reduce the wage bill. Surprise Surprise we struggled. He then gave Lambert who inherited a squad that had finished on 38 points a relative pittance to spend and asked him to reduce the wage bill and once again we struggled. He then gives Sherwood a pittance to spend at a club that had by now struggled for 4 seasons and again the wage bill was reduced and hey guess what we are now once again struggling.Sherwood will be replaced there is now no doubt about that. The cancer will remain though and this season sadly there will be no reprieve as it looks like finally Lerners incompetence and mismanagement of this club will finally result in what has been coming for a while and we will be relegated.Many managers will have played a small part in our demise but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to what this mans actions have reduced the club to. I get why people will take their anger out on Sherwood. I get why they did it against Lambert and McLeish. Whilst doing so though we are giving the man truly responsible an easy ride and whilst he remains at the club be it Sherwood or Guardiola managing us we will to varying degrees continue to struggle way more than a club of our stature ever should. Edited October 24, 2015 by markavfc40 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 My first comments on VT since getting back from Villa Park. Would have been sooner but I have been at my father in laws 60th birthday do.Understandable that the Sherwood thread has gone mad but he is pretty much an irrelevance now though so I have chose to comment in the thread related to the man truly responsible for where we stand.Since 2011 this man has run the club in such a way that any manager would have struggled. He gave McLeish a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and asked him to reduce the wage bill. Surprise Surprise we struggled. He then gave Lambert who inherited a squad that had finished on 38 points a relative pittance to spend and asked him to reduce the wage bill and once again we struggled. He then gives Sherwood a pittance to spend at a club that had by now struggled for 4 seasons and again the wage bill was reduced and hey guess what we are now once again struggling.Sherwood will be replaced there is now no doubt about that. The cancer will remain though and this season sadly there will be no reprieve as it looks like finally Lerners incompetence and mismanagement of this club will finally result in what has been coming for a while and we will be relegated.Many managers will have played a small part in our demise but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to what this mans actions have reduced the club to. I get why people will take their anger out on Sherwood. I get why they did it against Lambert and McLeish. Whilst doing so though we are giving the man truly responsible an easy ride and whilst he remains at the club be it Sherwood or Guardiola managing us we will to varying degrees continue to struggle way more than a club of our stature ever should. Hear hear. Ain't that the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 My first comments on VT since getting back from Villa Park. Would have been sooner but I have been at my father in laws 60th birthday do.Understandable that the Sherwood thread has gone mad but he is pretty much an irrelevance now though so I have chose to comment in the thread related to the man truly responsible for where we stand.Since 2011 this man has run the club in such a way that any manager would have struggled. He gave McLeish a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and asked him to reduce the wage bill. Surprise Surprise we struggled. He then gave Lambert who inherited a squad that had finished on 38 points a relative pittance to spend and asked him to reduce the wage bill and once again we struggled. He then gives Sherwood a pittance to spend at a club that had by now struggled for 4 seasons and again the wage bill was reduced and hey guess what we are now once again struggling.Sherwood will be replaced there is now no doubt about that. The cancer will remain though and this season sadly there will be no reprieve as it looks like finally Lerners incompetence and mismanagement of this club will finally result in what has been coming for a while and we will be relegated.Many managers will have played a small part in our demise but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to what this mans actions have reduced the club to. I get why people will take their anger out on Sherwood. I get why they did it against Lambert and McLeish. Whilst doing so though we are giving the man truly responsible an easy ride and whilst he remains at the club be it Sherwood or Guardiola managing us we will to varying degrees continue to struggle way more than a club of our stature ever should. Exactly how I see it too, we're down this season and it is Lerner to blame not the fall guys we call managers. Yes Sherwoods made mistakes but you know what? All managers make mistakes but usually in the Premier League the players are good enough to ride it out more often than not...as it is with this feeble team the manager, whoever it is, would have to be 100% perfect for us to have a remote chance in any game and we'd still lose half of them I reckon! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 what amuses me is that people are talking about Villa using no money, we may have sold more than we have bought the last 5 seasons, but according to tabloids we have the 12th most expensive squad transfer fee wise(does anyone remain from before we started saving?). Our wage budget is ALOT bigger than many other clubs in the league. Lerner really deserves a lot of criticism, but saying we do not spend any money is a lie. (for example the £50m we spend this window is more than Bournmouth's, Watford and Norwich squads cost and about the same as Swansea's, Leicester and Stoke's squads). So much money has been wasted at the club it is incredibly. He is to blame that the club has never had any vision on how he wants the team to play, never having any philosophy and hiring random managers that are polar opposites from each other. The last 4 managers have not liked the squads they have inherited , as they have different styles than the managers they have succeeded (except Sherwood, he has no style or vision at all) and have wanted to change the entire squad, making so many players unwanted at the club and therefor wasted money. If Lerner had a plan on how the team should play, he would have hired managers that fit our current squad, so the manager that had the £50m we spend in the summer did not have to buy 13 players, but instead would have added 4-5 quality players.Lerner is also fully to blame that he never hired football people to help the running of the club. Which in my opinion was/is his biggest mistake. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 My first comments on VT since getting back from Villa Park. Would have been sooner but I have been at my father in laws 60th birthday do.Understandable that the Sherwood thread has gone mad but he is pretty much an irrelevance now though so I have chose to comment in the thread related to the man truly responsible for where we stand.Since 2011 this man has run the club in such a way that any manager would have struggled. He gave McLeish a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and asked him to reduce the wage bill. Surprise Surprise we struggled. He then gave Lambert who inherited a squad that had finished on 38 points a relative pittance to spend and asked him to reduce the wage bill and once again we struggled. He then gives Sherwood a pittance to spend at a club that had by now struggled for 4 seasons and again the wage bill was reduced and hey guess what we are now once again struggling.Sherwood will be replaced there is now no doubt about that. The cancer will remain though and this season sadly there will be no reprieve as it looks like finally Lerners incompetence and mismanagement of this club will finally result in what has been coming for a while and we will be relegated.Many managers will have played a small part in our demise but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to what this mans actions have reduced the club to. I get why people will take their anger out on Sherwood. I get why they did it against Lambert and McLeish. Whilst doing so though we are giving the man truly responsible an easy ride and whilst he remains at the club be it Sherwood or Guardiola managing us we will to varying degrees continue to struggle way more than a club of our stature ever should. The problem with this post is that it gives no solution. in some sense, the man at the top is always responsible. (at least that's what Tim says). Randy has said he wants out and put others in charge and has put us up for sale. not sure what we can do about that unless you have a few million sitting around to buy us with.Tim on the other hand can be changed. moaning about things that can't be changed is pretty pointless. moaning about a manager that is clearly getting nothing close to the potential out of the team is much more positive.BTW, happy birthday to your Father in law, hope he had a good 60th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 My first comments on VT since getting back from Villa Park. Would have been sooner but I have been at my father in laws 60th birthday do.Understandable that the Sherwood thread has gone mad but he is pretty much an irrelevance now though so I have chose to comment in the thread related to the man truly responsible for where we stand.Since 2011 this man has run the club in such a way that any manager would have struggled. He gave McLeish a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and asked him to reduce the wage bill. Surprise Surprise we struggled. He then gave Lambert who inherited a squad that had finished on 38 points a relative pittance to spend and asked him to reduce the wage bill and once again we struggled. He then gives Sherwood a pittance to spend at a club that had by now struggled for 4 seasons and again the wage bill was reduced and hey guess what we are now once again struggling.Sherwood will be replaced there is now no doubt about that. The cancer will remain though and this season sadly there will be no reprieve as it looks like finally Lerners incompetence and mismanagement of this club will finally result in what has been coming for a while and we will be relegated.Many managers will have played a small part in our demise but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to what this mans actions have reduced the club to. I get why people will take their anger out on Sherwood. I get why they did it against Lambert and McLeish. Whilst doing so though we are giving the man truly responsible an easy ride and whilst he remains at the club be it Sherwood or Guardiola managing us we will to varying degrees continue to struggle way more than a club of our stature ever should. The problem with this post is that it gives no solution. in some sense, the man at the top is always responsible. (at least that's what Tim says). Randy has said he wants out and put others in charge and has put us up for sale. not sure what we can do about that unless you have a few million sitting around to buy us with.Tim on the other hand can be changed. moaning about things that can't be changed is pretty pointless. moaning about a manager that is clearly getting nothing close to the potential out of the team is much more positive.BTW, happy birthday to your Father in law, hope he had a good 60th.Not every problem has a simple solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Not every problem has a simple solution. Agreed. Not my point. I didn't assert that Lerner hasn't been a problem. It's just that we have several problems. The Lerner one is one we can't solve, but the solution is being pursued (club is for sale). The other one, the current manager, can be solved. I hope Lerner and crew do it soon. It's a matter of pragmatics to urge that we fix (moan about) what can be fixed rather than moan about the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Well, there's no active harm in pointing out that Lerner is the root cause, is there? Which is all Mark was doing. Sure, we can moan about Tim and he'll be replaced. But his replacement will almost certainly fail as well. The reason for that is Lerner. It really doesn't hurt to discuss 'the issue behind the issue'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Well, there's no active harm in pointing out that Lerner is the root cause, is there? Which is all Mark was doing. Sure, we can moan about Tim and he'll be replaced. But his replacement will almost certainly fail as well. The reason for that is Lerner. It really doesn't hurt to discuss 'the issue behind the issue'. Fair enough, but neither is there harm in focusing on what can be done. I'm not disagreeing with Mark, just saying that there's nothing really to be done about that particular problem... the issue behind the issue, unless you know a millionaire or 3. Maybe it's just my personality. I tend to focus on what can be done now to make things better. My boss likes it. Sorry if it sounds like I'm undermining Mark's point or yours, not my intent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 No revisionism needed, he is worse than Ellis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 My first comments on VT since getting back from Villa Park. Would have been sooner but I have been at my father in laws 60th birthday do.Understandable that the Sherwood thread has gone mad but he is pretty much an irrelevance now though so I have chose to comment in the thread related to the man truly responsible for where we stand.Since 2011 this man has run the club in such a way that any manager would have struggled. He gave McLeish a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and asked him to reduce the wage bill. Surprise Surprise we struggled. He then gave Lambert who inherited a squad that had finished on 38 points a relative pittance to spend and asked him to reduce the wage bill and once again we struggled. He then gives Sherwood a pittance to spend at a club that had by now struggled for 4 seasons and again the wage bill was reduced and hey guess what we are now once again struggling.Sherwood will be replaced there is now no doubt about that. The cancer will remain though and this season sadly there will be no reprieve as it looks like finally Lerners incompetence and mismanagement of this club will finally result in what has been coming for a while and we will be relegated.Many managers will have played a small part in our demise but it will pale into insignificance in comparison to what this mans actions have reduced the club to. I get why people will take their anger out on Sherwood. I get why they did it against Lambert and McLeish. Whilst doing so though we are giving the man truly responsible an easy ride and whilst he remains at the club be it Sherwood or Guardiola managing us we will to varying degrees continue to struggle way more than a club of our stature ever should. The problem with this post is that it gives no solution. in some sense, the man at the top is always responsible. (at least that's what Tim says). Randy has said he wants out and put others in charge and has put us up for sale. not sure what we can do about that unless you have a few million sitting around to buy us with.Tim on the other hand can be changed. moaning about things that can't be changed is pretty pointless. moaning about a manager that is clearly getting nothing close to the potential out of the team is much more positive.BTW, happy birthday to your Father in law, hope he had a good 60th.I agree with this entirely. I have acknowledged for many seasons, that until the ownership is changed there is little to hope from in changing managers.Even shot down for saying we'd not get a better manager than Lambert whilst this cretin still owns us.However, the guy went and put up a for sale sign...and now until someone buys us, he has washed himself of any responsibility. We say "**** off out lerner", he says "okay, this is my price and I'm gone". What the **** do we say to that?This new manager has been a shambles, really bad. Our best hope for change and to give us the best chance of survival lies with gambling a new manager. Surely sticking with this buffoon is nailed on relegation.We really can't do nnothing about the owner, but hopefully the manager can be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 We aren't going to survive this season we are down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 We aren't going to survive this season we are down.You're probably rright, and I think a lot of neutrals will be happy about that.However, the best fighting chance lies in a new manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervillan78 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 He should do the decent thing and sell the club for a £1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I'm actually getting to the point where If we were to be relegated a part of me would secretly be happy because his penny pinching will have back fired at the worst possible tine, All he has seen for years is dollar signs in his eyes and for us to drop out of the league and for them to be erased would be poetic justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 25, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2015 In fairness, for the money he's put in, he's entitled to expect more than we're getting, the club is run on similar or larger budgets to Stoke, Leicester, Albion, Palace and Swansea and we're spending at the same sort of level as Everton - it's the footballing side that's got us in this hole. Now you can say that the chairman has a big impact on the footballing side, but for the most part his job is just to be a wallet - he's had too much of an impact on the footballing side in the past and has made the job more difficult for managers by not having a proper structure in place, but I'm not sure that's true now. Sherwood doesn't speak to Lerner, he speaks to Fox and Almstadt - which is what a lot of us wanted. An owner who owns and a CEO and Sporting Director who run the club for the manager. We've currently got a squad with enough quality to finish comfortably in mid-table and the worst manager I can remember.As fans of a club with our history, status and potential, we can expect more than we're getting I think - the club shouldn't be run on similar budgets to Stoke, Leicester, Albion, Palace and Swansea -by it's nature, this is a bigger club than those, and I don't mean to insult those clubs, all of whom can rightly say that they're better than us today. Lerner can bear a bigger responsibility for our longer term shortcomings - and whilst he's doing the right things in trying to address them, by finally putting in place a structure to run the club and letting those people run the club and by trying to find a buyer who can invest the money that is needed and he doesn't have, the buck still stops with him.But right now, today; I think we've got a Randy Lerner who's not the one we hoped for, but is as good as most of the owners in this league, I think we've got the worst manager in the division bar none and I think we've got a good squad that is massively underperforming as a result. A better manager will get better results and, hey presto, Lerner will suddenly become a better owner in the eyes of a lot of people who are currently pointing their anger in the wrong place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 So why have we been so shit for the last 6 seasons if we are run as well as other clubs you mention and have similar budgets? The teams you mention keep adding quality to their squads while we have to continue to rebuild ours with wage issues in place. How people keep defending the way he's run this club is amazing when you look at how consistently bad we've been and where we're clearly gonna end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 25, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2015 We've been shit because Randy Lerner has appointed bad people in key positions, because it's taken him ages to realise that a bloke from a credit card company doesn't make the best Chief Exec of a football club, because he made the utterly ridiculous decision to appoint a manager that had just relegated a club that we all hate, because he's let the direction of the club fall to people who couldn't see past the end of their noses, including himself, but he's learning from that, we're better structured than we've been, we have a better office staff than we've had at any time since he bought the club in my opinion, and he's trying to replace the one that isn't able to take us forward - himself - by selling the club. Right now though, it's the manager that's preventing us competing with those clubs with similar budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 This guy needs to be removed from this football by any means necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) The fact that our aim is to now hope we can compete with the likes of Leicester and Stoke show how far we've dropped. He hasn't learnt from mistakes in order to build something long term here, he's making decisions to try and get the maximum financial return on the club. What happens to us in the mean time means little to him. Edited October 25, 2015 by DCJonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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