mikeyp102 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Without turning it into an arsenal thread Szczęsny was at arsenal at 16, Gibbs has also come through. Crowley has made a decision to further his career it's unfortunate for us but still wish him good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Arsenal are also a team that have finished in the top 4 consistently since 1997, they can afford to play the odd youngster. We are currently a mid table team that with some bad form could be sucked into a relegation battle, and have been for the majority of the last 10-15 years, we can't afford to play an unproven player, because if it doesn't pay off, the cost is huge to us, especially compared to Arsenal. So bemoan the fact we don't promote enough players through our ranks, it is frustrating, but to then use Arsenal as an example of teams that do is ridiculous as the situations are completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Would the cost of finishing outside the top 4 not be costly for arsenal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Would any of our kids make an impact at Arsenal? What is the point? Our kids aren't good enough, Arsenals are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hardly involved at preston... Because playing with a side struggling in a relegation battle you're never going to have matches were you're not playing well ? Ignoring the fact preston were by far the better side and are pushing for promotion. Deary me... I think the point they're trying to make is they're not saying throw a load of youngsters for a prem match is a good idea... just the odd one or two for a cup game wouldnt be so bad. See sheffield united match for more details. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Would the cost of finishing outside the top 4 not be costly for arsenal? No, but the cost of us getting relegated is arguably bigger, maybe not immediately financially, but would be devastating for the club, one year out of the CL for Arsenal wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Arsenal are in a stronger position to give young players a chance, that is entirely the point as to why this kid can't be blamed for choosing to leave Villa for Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Grealish is probably getting more out of playing every week at Notts though, isn't that the big thing? Yes he could probably make occasional first team appearances and maybe be helpful, but a full season of full professional matches will be invaluable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Arsenal are in a stronger position to give young players a chance, that is entirely the point as to why this kid can't be blamed for choosing to leave Villa for Arsenal. As much as Villa fans will hate this opinion I think its true. Dan crowley might not even make the first team straight away and like jack might go on loan... like bentley did ? But hes at a club who will offer more £££ to him and has more stability. Also which is why I think people cant entirely put the blame on PL. Imagine him bringing on an 18 year old who doesn't offer anything to the match because hes lacking confidence of never having a first team game before. In a relegation fight along with an already very young and fairly inexperienced villa squad it would be ridiculous. Both for the team and the players confidence. Yes andy I will climb out of your arse now. But ur posts r so gud, u shud be da managa one day xoxoxox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 For a better system, have very strict systems so only academies with very good systems achieve category one status. Then allow these teams to take lower category clubs youth players for a few hundred grand so each player is allowed the best chance to develop to his best ability. However, if a club is category 1, other clubs shouldn't be allowed to poach from them (could still agree a fee like Liverpool did with qpr over sterling obviously) but no set price for all talents from category 1s to other category 1s. This would do a few things. 1, it would incentivize more clubs to upgrade their facilities and youth systems and help youth development in the country as a whole 2, it would allow top prospect players to get training at a club with top facilities and not have their development harmed by a poor youth system and 3, be fair to clubs with great youth facilities like Villa in that they'd be able to not lose top prospects without a large fee and be rewarded for providing top facilities for youth development. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Kevan. I don't disagree that the odd cup match would be a good opportunity to play a youngster. It is still far more beneficial to an 18 year old to be playing regular football at somewhere like Notts County than getting splinters on his arse each week at Villa. The 2nd half at Everton on Saturday saw the game played almost exclusively in our own half (& the 1st wasn't much better) You need to understand that players like Gibbs & Wilshere are the exception to the rule & not the norm. Harry Forrester left Villa & seems to be developing a career elsewhere. This is a more normal path to take. In addition, I don't buy into this "Arsenal are in a better position to play youngsters" philosophy. They play youngsters on merit & as mentioned, Gibbs & Wilshere are an exception, both of whom would get into our team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Trying to compare Arsenal and Villa r.e: youth players is hilarious. Arsenal have such a good team that they can comfortably afford the luxury of having, for example, Gnabry play a game every now and then against lesser league opposition. He's got no pressure on performing, just to adapt to the league and how fast/physical/whatever it may be. The players around him are good enough to take away any expectation of him (however good he may actually be). Aston Villa are currently in a relegation fight of sorts (7 points away?) with an average squad that simply doesn't have the luxury of putting in youth players who actually need to make an impact straight away. If they failed, their confidence is knocked and they may start doubting themselves. Why would you put this kind of pressure on a young talent? We're already bigging up Jack Grealish as the next messiah or something - let's just let him develop naturally and see what happens, eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 In addition, I don't buy into this "Arsenal are in a better position to play youngsters" philosophy. They play youngsters on merit & as mentioned, Gibbs & Wilshere are an exception, both of whom would get into our team. Very much this ^. It's not like we have players of this quality in our academy and just decide it's too risky to play them in the Premier League because it's Aston Villa and not Arsenal. Bullshite. Southampton are playing their kids and are doing just fine with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Would any of our kids make an impact at Arsenal? What is the point? Our kids aren't good enough, Arsenals are The only kids who make an impact at Arsenal are kids they somehow nab from other clubs - Fabregas being the most obvious example. They haven't produced a genuinely top class youngster of their own in donkeys' years. Ashley Cole is the only one I can think of and he ditched them at the first opportunity. Arsenal's youngsters receive a lot of hype simply because they are based in London, close to all the media outlets and P.R. agencies - I wouldn't let such things cloud your judgement old son. A final thought: if the likes of Gibbs, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc. had been blooded for Arsenal in the midst of relegation battles in the manner our young lads were, the Gunners would now be playing in the Championship. Edited February 7, 2014 by McGregor1888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyvillan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It annoyed me so much when Sunday Supplement named him in their argument for Arsenal bringing through youth players. Although we can't complain too much given the fact that we took Carruthers from them. Time will tell who shafted who but at the moment it looks like we could be the shaftees (Im making that a word). That said, on the very brief sightings i've had of him (2 cameos and a reserve game) Carruthers is the type of player we are crying out for it we are content on using a "number 10". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It annoyed me so much when Sunday Supplement named him in their argument for Arsenal bringing through youth players. that is football though if you look at it like UEFA do im sure between the age of 15 and 21 you need to have spent 3 years at the club, and thanks to that arsenal have more home grown players than any other team in the league, the fact that 2 of them are english and actually came through arsenals youth set up is neither here nor there, according to UEFA walcott, chamberlain, ramsey, Szczęsny... all "home grown" players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 McGregor- I am not interested in Arsenal. I do not give a flying f@@k about them so there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of my judgement being clouded. If we're talking about playing youngsters, it is irrelevant as to where they started off. The point is that arsenal are playing a couple (on merit). If Grealish, Gardner or whoever else was at Arsenal, do you really think they would be involved in the 1st team set up? Why do people think they should be involved here? As a side issue, Chelsea won the youth cup at Villa Park about 6 years ago. Have any of that side broken into the 1st team? I remember they were all foreign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) What has this got to do with Dan Crowley? He believes he will be given a chance at Arsenal on merit, so he made the move. This discussion is going around in circles, forget who Villa and Arsenal currently have at youth level, Crowley in the summer was probably the hottest young English talent around. If he lives up to the hype he is more likely to get a game at Arsenal than at Villa and I'm sure he'd rather do so. Simple as that for me. Edited February 7, 2014 by AndyClarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Why would he get into Arsenals side but not Villas? This is a ridiculous statement Are you claiming Wiltshere wouldn't get into our side either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Why would he get into Arsenals side but not Villas? This is a ridiculous statement Are you claiming Wiltshere wouldn't get into our side either? Course he would, but if he was at Villa and not Arsenal would he have gotten his opportunity when he did or would he be floating around on loans and not being utilised to improve his abilities? I'd rather be a kid at Arsenal than a kid at Villa, you'll be given the chance more there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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