villakram Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 51 minutes ago, peterms said: But the authorities are requiring a postal address, where many people use a PO box. If there's a more blatant attempt at preventing people voting, I'd be interested to hear about it. The classic thing is some new requirement that just so happens to be more difficult for an amazingly specific sub-population to easily satisfy, or a simple purge of rolls based on some activity or some such requirement. Those with fixed abodes get the notice to re-new/confirm, those who move about get lost in the shuffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, villakram said: The only way to combat this is ID for all. Urgh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, snowychap said: Urgh. Yes, yes and yes... but this is how it works in most places. If you vote it is because you are registered, essentially a form of ID. The fabled social security card/driver licence/nhs card or whatever you lot use. People react aghast against that statement, but it's already occurred. And the trap the republicans have set is to paint the democrats as arguing that you should not need ID to vote. Now it being a requirement in addition to whatever voting card etc., you receive or a roll that you are scratched off, that is indeed something that is interesting to argue. Imho, it should be a little like polling, a random sample should be ID'd to ensure the integrity/validity of the poll. However, in a highly polarized climate with very tight races, it's an understandable tactic to say only "real" voters can vote. Now, this is not actually the dems typical point. They are typically reacting to the latest shameful/nefarious act by some republican legislature, but they're a bunch of fools in how they've lost control of the argument. Btw, see the "phones" we all trot around with... or view this site on. Your government monitors all UK internet traffic and retroactively made it all entirely legal. It's the same here, though they've probably sub-contracted to some private corp for some slimy veneer of legitimacy. Of course, the larger issue is regarding the fundamental utility of a vote in a gerrymandered plutocracy, but we shouldn't mention that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 hours ago, villakram said: But, it's not the first time these games have been played. No, it isn't, but so what? That doesn't make it right, or not worthy of comment. If anything, the fact that this fits into a strong pattern of voter-disenfranchisement by GOP politicians is even more reason to condemn it. 7 hours ago, villakram said: The tribal authorities need to find a way to circumvent this issue (i.e., work to re-define what a PO box is or create some other legal fudge or whatever mechanism is used in other parts of uber-rural America) That's probably the legal solution, yes, but I don't see why, per your post before, you were writing about people who 'are over the age of 18 and can't be bothered to go and get [themselves] a form of official ID' - this has nothing to do with that - or why you're arguing back against me saying this type of racially-targeted voter registration rule is wrong, and needs to be described as such. An alternative solution might be for the state's Republican government to stop persecuting American Indian voters based on their race. Dare to dream, eh. 8 hours ago, villakram said: and then here's the thing... the Repubs will look for some other loop hole. We should be playing the game too and working to identify these issues first and then help the relevant populations front run them. The only way to combat this is ID for all. 'the Repubs will look for some other loop hole' is a description of their actual behaviour, but their actual behaviour is despicable. We shouldn't simply accept it, or treat it as some ineffable, uncontrallable thing like the weather. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: the Repubs will look for some other loop hole' is a description of their actual behaviour, but their actual behaviour is despicable. We shouldn't simply accept it, Yeah it is despicable. We should simply accept it. We who live in the U.K. we should simply note that the US system is rigged and continues to be so, and then move on to not accepting stuff that actually affects us. Not accepting the Repubs behaviour means doing something about it, and we can’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 11, 2018 Administrator Share Posted October 11, 2018 5 hours ago, villakram said: If you vote it is because you are registered, essentially a form of ID. The fabled social security card/driver licence/nhs card or whatever you lot use. People react aghast against that statement, but it's already occurred. I vote and i hold none of those. We don't have compulsory ID. In fact it's the Reporting Officers' job to identify who is eligible to vote. Almost exactly the opposite of producing ID to register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, limpid said: In fact it's the Reporting Officers' job to identify who is eligible Returning officer, surely? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, villakram said: Yes, yes and yes... but this is how it works in most places. If you vote it is because you are registered, essentially a form of ID. The fabled social security card/driver licence/nhs card or whatever you lot use. People react aghast against that statement, but it's already occurred. I do not require ID in order to vote. There have been pilots in a few places where they have required this but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I do not physically possess either an NHS card or an NI card (I know the number obviously) and I only ever take my driving licence out if I'm to hire a vehicle (something I may do once a decade) and I think it's due to expire soon. I keep on hearing the 'but it's almost happened anyway and we may as well just have it for all' but no, no, no. As soon as you make this the case then you're a short step from it being demanded by authorities (for no good reason other than they can), people who deem themselves to be an authority and, often, others who have no authority to do so because it will have been normalized. So yes: urgh. Edited October 11, 2018 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Quote A federal judge has rejected a push to extend Florida’s voter registration deadline because of Hurricane Michael, the Associated Press reported. U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle ruled late Wednesday that there was “no justification” to extend the deadline, according to AP. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/oct/11/hurricane-michael-latest-live-news-updates-florida-weather-evacuations-storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2018 22 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: It's not fascism though. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 A moment of honesty from trumpypumpy. They buy a lot of weapons from us, therefore they can do what they like, including dismembering a member of the US press corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted October 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2018 So Kanye out-crazied Trump on his own turf today. Trump actually looked uncomfortable - 1st time he's ever appeared remotely close to being a normal human to me (and not an entitled, narcissistic self obsessed entitled old white baby.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 12, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 12, 2018 A couple of things from that video of Trump, firstly the way he says "one hundred and ten billion", the emphasis he puts on it, the clarity with which he's explaining that it is the important thing in the room and that you'd have to be stupid not to realise - it's the most open he's ever been on who his actual constituents are. Secondly, as an indication of his personality, when he's not sure of something he's just said, and he thinks he might be wrong, the nearest he can get to confessing he doesn't know is "Is that right or is that right?". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 hours ago, TheAuthority said: So Kanye out-crazied Trump on his own turf today. Trump actually looked uncomfortable - 1st time he's ever appeared remotely close to being a normal human to me (and not an entitled, narcissistic self obsessed entitled old white baby.) It seems like all the males involved with the Kardashian family are suffering in one way shape or form. What's Kanye gone and done now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted October 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2018 Worth a few minutes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 12 hours ago, A'Villan said: It seems like all the males involved with the Kardashian family are suffering in one way shape or form. Serves them all right. They know what they are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, TheAuthority said: Worth a few minutes. "They are trying to distract you..." Ask yourself: Who are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 20 hours ago, TheAuthority said: So Kanye out-crazied Trump on his own turf today. Trump actually looked uncomfortable - 1st time he's ever appeared remotely close to being a normal human to me (and not an entitled, narcissistic self obsessed entitled old white baby.) It was uncomfortable to watch. Made me feel a bit like I was echoing those people who used to turn up at Victorian mental hospitals to watch people exhibiting bizarre behaviour. A bit voyeuristic, and a little out of place, like you should be seeking help for them, not just watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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