blandy Posted March 7, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2016 19 hours ago, dAVe80 said: A right armed salute, in support of their leader. Erm... I (mostly) hate it when people make something out to be something it isn't, with photos. - Clearly that pic was taken when people were asked to put their hands in the air if they agreed with...whatever. Just about everyone has their arm(s) in the air. Including Tronald Dump with his tiny hands and funny hair. He's been quite clever, Trump. He just says sh*t people (Republican people) want to hear. Doesn't matter that he doesn't believe it, or that it's untrue, or that it contradicts what he's said or done previously. Because that section of US society seems to hate "the establishment" so much, he can basically get away with anything. Then by saying populist stuff and getting the odd opponent or media people to attack him he wins twice over - once for saying the popular thing and once more for attracting flak from the liberal media, or establishment. He's a complete fraud and a fake, and if he were to get voted in, he'd become really unpopular really quickly, because he wouldn't do the things he's promised - the whole circus is based on hot air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 He's not going to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 4 hours ago, meregreen said: We currently have the most right wing reactionary Conservative Govt. in my lifetime.They haven't modernized, they have regressed. People like IDS, Osborne, Priti Patel, Eric Pickles etc. would feel well at home in Charles Dickens era. Obviously I'd disagree with that completely but I was referring simply to becoming electable. Regardless of your own opinions on the Conservative Party they've improved massively in terms of fighting elections compared to 1997 although I guess you could say this is in part due to the ineptness of Blair's successors. To be fair, the party has changed quite a bit as well, at least socially. The majority of Conservative MPs now support gay marriage for example and probably a small majority of party members yet 20 years ago that would've been unthinkable. The Republicans need to stop banging on about things like abortion, school prayer, gay marriage etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 39 minutes ago, maqroll said: He's not going to win 90% of me agrees, but that other 10% can't shake the thought it could happen. If he secures the nomination, it will mobilise the electorate if nothing else. It will be a 60%+ turnout IMO. There's a long way to go yet, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Look how many people voted UKIP here. It's like that blown up to gigantic American super sized proportions. With Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) He won't win barring a complete miracle on his part. He has very poor cross demographic support. He only gets support in core Republican demographics. Outside of that the numbers suggest not only does he not have much support outside of the usual groups, he's actually actively disliked, which suggests he's not terribly likely to draw many swing votes or many undecideds, because chances are most think he's a clearing in the woods. It should be a win for Hillary. The Republicans are going to tear themselves apart and look absolutely farcical, and Sanders won't get the nomination, despite doing surprisingly well so far. Hillary winning isn't a good thing either in fairness. This is a bizarre election, even most of the nominees are shit. Edited March 7, 2016 by Chindie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 As soon as Clinton sees off Sanders, her campaign tone will shift straight back to the center-right. And Wall Street will throw a big party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I'm about 99 per cent sure it will be Hillary (though, she is also strongly disliked by a lot of voters.) And I do find Trump's entire candidacy incredibly distasteful and have to question the clinical sanity of his supporters. However, there is something profoundly good about Trump's (and far more so Sanders') popularity, and that is so much of it stems from voters realising how rigged and corrupt the current state of the union really is. America does need a political earthquake or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2016 I listen to an American comedy politics podcast and the reaction to Hillary, and the activities in the nomination run up generally, have made for fairly grim listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, maqroll said: As soon as Clinton sees off Sanders, her campaign tone will shift straight back to the center-right. And Wall Street will throw a big party. I hope she'll at least feel that she might need a few Bernie fans to win the general, though, but you're probably right. A fascinatingly unlikable woman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 6 hours ago, blandy said: He's a complete fraud and a fake, and if he were to get voted in, he'd become really unpopular really quickly, because he wouldn't do the things he's promised - the whole circus is based on hot air So was Blair and he won 3 terms , though he managed to avoid becoming unpopular in the main until his phony war Trump to me has become a by product of social media where you can say something outrageous and also untrue but people believe it , get outraged by it and then spread it without bothering to spend 30 seconds checking the fact(s) for themselves you could of course say it's always been so with politicians but it seems more prevailant in the past few years ... See the rise of UKIP over here for example 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2016 11 hours ago, Mantis said: Regardless of your own opinions on the Conservative Party they've improved massively in terms of fighting elections compared to 1997 although I guess you could say this is in part due to the ineptness of Blair's successors. They are Blair's successors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Consensus is that Hilary will be the next President. But in a two horse race, what happens when one horse is Trump and the other horse has a single disaster along the way? Footage of her slapping an orphan in a wheelchair, a tape of her saying all New Yorkers are dicks, or she has a health wobble? Does that mean that Trump, for all his toddler mentality, wins by a kind of default? Two horse races where you don't like one and a half of the horses are not great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Consensus is that Hilary will be the next President. But in a two horse race, what happens when one horse is Trump and the other horse has a single disaster along the way? Footage of her slapping an orphan in a wheelchair, a tape of her saying all New Yorkers are dicks, or she has a health wobble? Does that mean that Trump, for all his toddler mentality, wins by a kind of default? Two horse races where you don't like one and a half of the horses are not great. There seems to have been enough dirt on the Clintons over the years to bury them 4 times over ... That she still has a political career even after all that probably means she can survive slapgate ... Denouncing Christ as a naughty boy is about the only thing likely to stop her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 6 hours ago, tonyh29 said: There seems to have been enough dirt on the Clintons over the years to bury them 4 times over ... That she still has a political career even after all that probably means she can survive slapgate ... Denouncing Christ as a naughty boy is about the only thing likely to stop her Remember that the USA re-elected GWB! A man who was so far out of his depth that it was simply mind boggling to me that it could happen. I was living in comparatively sane Ireland at the time and couldn't understand it. Living here now, I do... and Trump has a really good shot at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 20 hours ago, Mantis said: Obviously I'd disagree with that completely but I was referring simply to becoming electable. Regardless of your own opinions on the Conservative Party they've improved massively in terms of fighting elections compared to 1997 although I guess you could say this is in part due to the ineptness of Blair's successors. To be fair, the party has changed quite a bit as well, at least socially. The majority of Conservative MPs now support gay marriage for example and probably a small majority of party members yet 20 years ago that would've been unthinkable. The Republicans need to stop banging on about things like abortion, school prayer, gay marriage etc. So the conservatives are progressing by being less conservative and the Republicans also need to be less conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 11 hours ago, tonyh29 said: There seems to have been enough dirt on the Clintons over the years to bury them 4 times over ... That she still has a political career even after all that probably means she can survive slapgate ... Denouncing Christ as a naughty boy is about the only thing likely to stop her There is a (very) remote possibility she may yet be indicted over her extremely dumb idea to receive government emails to her personal email account, stored on a server in her home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 5 hours ago, villakram said: Remember that the USA re-elected GWB! A man who was so far out of his depth that it was simply mind boggling to me that it could happen. I was living in comparatively sane Ireland at the time and couldn't understand it. Living here now, I do... and Trump has a really good shot at this. Regardless of what you think about Bush's policies he's not quite the idiot the media made him out to be. I wouldn't really compare him to Trump either. Trump's almost in a league of his own actually. 5 hours ago, Wainy316 said: So the conservatives are progressing by being less conservative and the Republicans also need to be less conservative. Only on social issues. Really it's about priorities and a lot of Republicans have them the wrong way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Bush was every bit the idiot the media made him out to be. They didn't have to try hard to find example of his stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) I sometimes get the impression from the media coverage that the GOP being a bit nasty is somehow a new phenomenon, brought about by Donald Trump. It's like we've forgotten just how hated GWB was. Really, Trump is a clown and the level of debate he's responsible for is an embarrasment to democracy, but is Trump more dangerous than Cheney and Rumsfeld? Or Kissinger? I'm not so sure. Edited March 9, 2016 by Michelsen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 22 hours ago, Mantis said: Regardless of what you think about Bush's policies he's not quite the idiot the media made him out to be. I wouldn't really compare him to Trump either. Trump's almost in a league of his own actually. Only on social issues. Really it's about priorities and a lot of Republicans have them the wrong way around. I really fail to understand how you could think Trump is worse than Bush? What are the exact points that Trump has made that you find so offensive to common sense and logic? I'm not trolling here... watching the GOP and their media shills run around like headless chickens, throwing stuff pretty much randomly at the wall in an effort to hurt Trump is hilarious. They could really use some help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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