TheAuthority Posted March 2, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2016 The Canadians have their say aboot Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Nails it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 2, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2016 Roger Cohen of the The New York Times writing from London. A cold, harder observation of what is happening with the benefit of distance from the circus that CNN et al seemingly cannot resist. Quote The power of the Oval Office and the temperament of a bully make for an explosive combination, especially when he has shown contempt for the press, a taste for violence, a consistent inhumanity, a devouring ego and an above-the-law swagger. As Europe knows, democracies do die. Often, they are the midwives of their own demise. Once lost, the cost of recovery is high. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/01/opinion/donald-trumps-il-duce-routine.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region Quote Trump's Il Duce Routine LONDON — Europe, the soil on which Fascism took root, is watching the rise of Donald Trump with dismay. Contempt for the excesses of America is a European reflex, but when the United States seems tempted by a latter-day Mussolini, smugness in London, Paris and Berlin gives way to alarm. Europe knows that democracies can collapse. It’s not just that Trump retweets to his six million followers a quote attributed to Mussolini: “It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.” It’s not just that Trump refuses to condemn David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, who has expressed support for him. It’s not just that violence is woven into Trump’s language as indelibly as the snarl woven into his features — the talk of shooting somebody or punching a protester in the face, the insulting of the disabled, the macho mockery of women, the anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican tirades. It’s not just that he could become Silvio Berlusconi with nukes. It’s the echoes, now unmistakable, of times when the skies darkened. Europe knows how democracies collapse, after lost wars, in times of fear and anger and economic hardship, when the pouting demagogue appears with his pageantry and promises. America’s Weimar-lite democratic dysfunction is plain to see. A corrupted polity tends toward collapse. Trump is telling people something is rotten in the state of America. The message resonates because the rot is there. He has emerged from a political system corrupted by money, locked in an echo chamber of insults, reduced to the show business of an endless campaign, blocked by a kind of partisanship run amok that leads Republican members of Congress to declare they will not meet with President Obama’s eventual nominee for the Supreme Court, let alone listen to him or her. This is an outrage! The public interest has become less than an afterthought. Enter the smart, savvy, scowling showman. He is self-financed and promises restored greatness. He has a bully’s instinct for the jugular and a sense of how sick an angry America is of politics as usual and political correctness. He hijacks a Republican Party that has paved the way for him with years of ranting, bigotry, bellicosity and what Robert Kagan, in The Washington Post, has rightly called “racially tinged derangement syndrome” with respect to President Obama. Trump is a man repeatedly underestimated by the very elites who made Trumpism possible. He’s smarter than most of his belittlers, and quicker on his feet, which makes him only more dangerous. He’s the anti-Obama, all theater where the president is all prudence, the mouth-that-spews to the presidential teleprompter, rage against reason, the backslapper against the maestro of aloofness, the rabble-rouser to the cerebral law professor, the deal maker to the diligent observer. If Obama in another life could have been a successful European social democrat, Trump is only and absolutely of America. Part of the Trump danger is that he’s captured an American irredentism, a desire to reclaim something — power, confidence, rising incomes — that many people feel is lost. Trump is a late harvest of 9/11 and the fears that took hold that day. He’s the focus of vague hopes and dim resentments that have turned him into a savior in waiting. As with Ronald Reagan, it’s not the specifics with Trump, it’s a feeling, a vibration — and no matter how much he dissembles, reveals himself as a thug, traffics in contradictions, the raptness persists. Europe is transfixed. The German newsweekly “Der Spiegel” has called Trump “the world’s most dangerous man” and even waxed nostalgic for President George W. Bush, which for a European publication is like suddenly discovering a soft spot for Dracula. The French prime minister, Manuel Valls, has tweeted that Trump “fuels hatred.” In Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron has attacked Trump’s proposed ban on non-American Muslims entering the United States, and more than half a million people have signed a petition urging that he be kept out of Britain. This weekend Britain's Sunday Times ran a page-size photo of Trump in Lord Kitchener pose with a blaring headline: “America Wants Me.” So do a few Europeans, among them the French rightist Jean-Marie Le Pen. Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, is a fan, as are some Russian oligarchs. Judge a man by the company he keeps. This disoriented America just might want Trump — and that possibility should be taken very seriously, before it is too late, by every believer in American government of the people, by the people, for the people. The power of the Oval Office and the temperament of a bully make for an explosive combination, especially when he has shown contempt for the press, a taste for violence, a consistent inhumanity, a devouring ego and an above-the-law swagger. As Europe knows, democracies do die. Often, they are the midwives of their own demise. Once lost, the cost of recovery is high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 The open racism at his rallies is very disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 slate rounded up a list of violent incidents at his rallies here Two incidents of violence have been recorded on video this week at Donald Trump rallies. Here's a list of reported violent incidents involving Trump supporters, protesters, members of the media, and security officials dating back to last year. 1. Oct. 14, 2015 in Richmond, Virginia. Individuals at a Trump rally shoved and took signs from a group of immigration activists. One spit in a protester's face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted March 4, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2016 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 The GOP campaigning has devolved into WWF style schoolyard bluster and penis size insults. Teddy Roosevelt is spinning in his grave. If the democrats don't walk this one, I'll be amazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 5, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) 27 minutes ago, maqroll said: If the democrats don't walk this one, I'll be amazed. The primary elections are very separate from the real Presidential contest (as I'm sure you know.) So anything can happen in the general election....................... "President Trump, Mr. Putin is waiting to see you" Trump does have the nomination, unless, all candidates stay in the race therefore he would be unable to attain the required number of delegates to automatically become the GOP nominee. That means there will be a 'contested convention' when essentially the Republican higher-ups will decide the candidate. In that case Trump admitted last night last he won't be their candidate. If that situation occurs, he could decide to run as an independent......... and then you will have votes siphoning off to either side. (There is still the potential that Bloomberg enters the race also as an independent but that is just too confusing too consider at the moment) No matter where you live on the planet, we are all going to be affected by this bizarre process. Edited March 5, 2016 by TheAuthority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I wonder if Blair was still around he'd be considering how his interventionist theorem applied to the US. Because at this point I'm not sure they can be trusted with the Nukes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 On 05/03/2016 at 06:45, TheAuthority said: The primary elections are very separate from the real Presidential contest (as I'm sure you know.) So anything can happen in the general election....................... "President Trump, Mr. Putin is waiting to see you" Trump does have the nomination, unless, all candidates stay in the race therefore he would be unable to attain the required number of delegates to automatically become the GOP nominee. That means there will be a 'contested convention' when essentially the Republican higher-ups will decide the candidate. In that case Trump admitted last night last he won't be their candidate. If that situation occurs, he could decide to run as an independent......... and then you will have votes siphoning off to either side. (There is still the potential that Bloomberg enters the race also as an independent but that is just too confusing too consider at the moment) No matter where you live on the planet, we are all going to be affected by this bizarre process. In the long term I actually think it would be better for the Republicans if the party establishment rejected Trump and he decided to run as an independent. Yeah they'd definitely lose in the presidential election but a rejection of somebody like Trump would have huge symbolic significance and could also kickstart a new breakaway movement of the populist right which could in turn detoxify the Republicans to a certain extent. Obviously politics is very different in the US and the UK but right now I think the Republicans are in need of modernising in the same way the Conservatives were after 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Without wishing to look like any sort of Trump apologist, where has 100 years of world policeman got them? The USA didn't have a natural leaning to push it's philosophy on the world, it had to be persuaded and prodded quite late in to two world wars. It's then tried after those wars to pre empt troubles and to counter communism. Perhaps any number of bloody noses and pains in the arse, from Korea to Vietnam, Libya, Afghanistan, Nicaragua and others have lead quite a lot of people to think the old isolationist policies were the best. A promise to let the world sort out its own shit, thus saving money and their sons lives, whilst building up the military, being safer at home and literally physically building walls to keep foreign people out must actually be quite appealing. If you think about it, it's only a version tweeked for a different market of what we are being seduced with right now from our own right wing politicians. We are being told that we are better than the others and we'd be better off alone, safer and richer and 'in control' before too many bulgarian weirdos, romanian benefits cheats and brown skinned rapists climb on board our raft. It's a very tempting message when people are scared. Wrap it up in some old time religion, some promise of money tomorrow and a chopsy entertaining leader, it all gets very compelling. We could very easily find ourselves soon in a world where, from the Russia, the Ukraine, Poland, France, the UK and the USA all have variations on 'strong' personality lead right wing governments. I'm not sure how Boris will measure up to Putin and Trump. But just think of that photo caption opportunity. Two of them staring at each other like some re run of a Frankie Goes To Hollywood Two Tribes video, whilst Boris dangles overhead with a little flag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 6, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2016 29 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Without wishing to look like any sort of Trump apologist, where has 100 years of world policeman got them? Made them the most powerful nation on earth by a country mile, and the only truly global superpower to have ever existed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 1 minute ago, Chindie said: Made them the most powerful nation on earth by a country mile, and the only truly global superpower to have ever existed. Yes, sorry, it wasn't my opinion, it was me trying to channel the opinions of the typical tea party type. When you're not sure where Panama is, other than sort of by Mexico, the global importance of the canal and the USA involvement in it doesn't feel immediately important. The image of big cars at the drive in movies doesn't need the global super power stuff, nothing beyond John Wayne movies anyway. They have a mental image of a self sustaining cowboy, not the hard miles of diplomacy and aid. Cowboys live well, until they die, peacefully in their mountain shack, or stopping bad cowboys dressed in black. Cowboys don't have painful teeth for twenty years, they don't get a rough deal from their middle manager at their job in Walmart. They don't get beaten up by white police patrolling black neighbourhoods. It's a cartoon ideal of america that it would appear millions of people think if they wish hard enough, will be delivered. I was trying to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 6, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2016 7 hours ago, Mantis said: In the long term I actually think it would be better for the Republicans if the party establishment rejected Trump and he decided to run as an independent. Yeah they'd definitely lose in the presidential election but a rejection of somebody like Trump would have huge symbolic significance and could also kickstart a new breakaway movement of the populist right which could in turn detoxify the Republicans to a certain extent. Obviously politics is very different in the US and the UK but right now I think the Republicans are in need of modernising in the same way the Conservatives were after 1997. I agree with you to the extent that the GOP need to try and save the party. To reject Trump and detoxify is one way to go, but that means playing a very long game and potentially mean they are out of office for 16 years. I personally don't think they will do that. For me the leaders of the GOP opened Pandora's box by choosing Sarah Palin as a Vice-Presidential candidate to run with John McCain. Up until then the party had always kept it's lunatic fringe under control to a certain extent but they always needed those nuts to get elected (G.W. Bush had Karl Rove vacuuming up the evangelical votes in the same way that Reagan did.) The leaders of the party are also responsible for letting all those Tea Party candidates run in the 2010 mid-terms. In hind-sight it appears more and more like the party was acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum because a very smart black-man was running the country. Now here we are watching the GOP tear itself apart. Party politics dictates that Trump should be the candidate. Is it the end of party politics? Is it the end of the GOP? There certainly doesn't seem to be anywhere for the traditional fiscally conservative Republicans to go and all we can hear are the screams and cries of the disaffected morons on the far right. It's a problem they created for themselves and no-one knows how it's all going to end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 6, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2016 This is from Louis C.K. yesterday. I found myself reading it in his voice. https://m.facebook.com/TheLogicalLibertarian/posts/1126058400761446 Quote Please stop it with voting for Trump. It was funny for a little while. But the guy is Hitler, and by that I mean that we are being Germany in the ’30s. Do you think they saw the shit coming? Hitler was just some hilarious and refreshing dude with a weird comb over who would say anything at all. That's how Hitler got there. He was voted into power by a fatigued nation and when he got inside, he did all his Hitler things and no one could stop him. In fact, if you do vote for Trump, at least look at him very carefully first... I don’t mean listen to me or listen to liberals who put him down. Listen to your own people. Listen to John McCain. Go look at what he just said about Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 A right armed salute, in support of their leader. Erm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 On 3/6/2016 at 10:15, Mantis said: Obviously politics is very different in the US and the UK but right now I think the Republicans are in need of modernising in the same way the Conservatives were after 1997. We currently have the most right wing reactionary Conservative Govt. in my lifetime.They haven't modernized, they have regressed. People like IDS, Osborne, Priti Patel, Eric Pickles etc. would feel well at home in Charles Dickens era. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 On 3/6/2016 at 06:16, Chindie said: Made them the most powerful nation on earth by a country mile, and the only truly global superpower to have ever existed. That had much more to do with the euroasian landmass self-immolating not once but twice on the last 100yrs, than any great US leadership. We are reverting to the mean now and the power lies where the people do (or where the wealth does, and that follows the people)... same as it ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2016 1 minute ago, villakram said: That had much more to do with the euroasian landmass self-immolating not once but twice on the last 100yrs, than any great US leadership. We are reverting to the mean now and the power lies where the people do (or where the wealth does, and that follows the people)... same as it ever was. They took advantage of the situation that developed with the World Wars and managed to build on that for the entire century. While it's unlikely to have happened (certainly to such an extent) without both World Wars, I'd contend that the US doesn't end up in the position it finds itself in now without some efforts to secure that position, especially as the 20th century developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts