U.S. Politics

[choffer]

1 hour ago, TheAuthority said:

Sadly if you scratch the surface I would guess around 20% of the US hates the LGBTQ community and thinks they are "evil/weird/perverts/unnatural" (make your choice.)

From what I've seen, I'd think 20% to be quite a low estimate.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

This is amazing  

[villakram]

2 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

Sadly if you scratch the surface I would guess around 20% of the US hates the LGBTQ community and thinks they are "evil/weird/perverts/unnatural" (make your choice.)

The country was founding on the blanket acceptance of a genocide and happily based it's economy on human trafficking for hundreds of years. The US only began to deal with the aftermath of slavery in the late 60's / early 70's and that's really only a generation ago. (It's debatable if the issues can ever really be resolved.) I would say at least 30% of the white population is racist and would happily put anyone who is slightly brown on a boat to anywhere other than the "homeland." That 30% honestly believe that if the US was just white it would be great again.

Thats' Trump base. Add another 10% of the population that was sick of 'business as usual" in Washington and thats where his votes came from. 

 

All hope is not lost. Go back 5-8yrs and there was a majority against gay marriage, whereas now there is something like a 55-45 in favor (nationally averaged). I don't have exact figures, but significant progress has been made in normalizing gay people amongst the population. We should not forget this. I also suspect that most countries wouldn't have too much trouble mustering 20-30% against LGBTQ issues.

Now trans-etc. people are a different kettle of fish entirely, and I suspect it'll be a tougher nut to crack. In the sense that, we've all met a gay person and hence thinking they are whatever evil the religious/ignorant say really conflicts with reality, even for the most sheltered individual. Those in the trans community will have a much tougher time of things purely due to their number. 

This military thing is discrimination/bigotry pure and simple, as the military already has the ability to discriminate at will, e.g., a skinny sod like me probably won't be a navy seal, whereas a 6'2" stud probably won't be a cook. Though, I guess we can't really be surprised by this behavior from the USA military given their deeds over the past 70 yrs.

Edited July 26, 2017 by villakram

[snowychap]

40 minutes ago, villakram said:

a 6'2" stud probably won't be a cook

 

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

3 hours ago, peterms said:

It's not about rhetoric or wanting only things that support a certain world view.  Let me try to explain how I see it.......

A great explanation and I agree wholeheartedly but I still don't feel demonising him as the only course of action does much to improve the situation. It further divides voters and emboldens his supporters.
At this stage, it's not impossible that a small economic upturn at the right time could see him winning a second term for him or the republicans.
Why not report something about a President wasting his chance at inspiring the next generation of kids? Did enough people really take their kids out of scouts (which only hurts the child) to make a story out of it?

My assessment a few weeks after he won was that the Democrats need to immediately concentrate on policies for the mid-term election, not spend 18 months vilifying someone who doesn't care and isn't going to change, I think that goes for the media too. 
From the BBC report (and many others) you'd think very few of scouts in the US enjoyed his presence. But many people did enjoy his presence and will get a lot from it, that balance in the story gives increased weight when you attack him for failing in his main job, governance and not buffoonery. 

[villa4europe]

scaramucci on newsnight...**** me

what a vile man he is

[Keyblade]

So John McCain (who's dying btw) checked out of a hospital where he was receiving publicly funded healthcare just to vote to take away other people's healthcare. Couldn't make it up.

[HanoiVillan]

9 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

A great explanation and I agree wholeheartedly but I still don't feel demonising him as the only course of action does much to improve the situation. It further divides voters and emboldens his supporters.

There really isn't much evidence for this. His overall approval rating is towards the lowest point it has been, having stabilised at around 38-39%, the lowest for any president in the modern era at this stage in his presidency, and the proportion of voters who strongly approve of him has declined significantly during his short presidency (graphs come from https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/06/07/strong-approval-of-trump-is-fading-across-a-number-of-demographics/?utm_term=.80aec7d9b809), ie. he seems to be much more successful in turning off supporters than emboldening them:

 

[Demitri_C]

9 hours ago, villa4europe said:

scaramucci on newsnight...**** me

what a vile man he is

Hilarious 

 

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

There really isn't much evidence for this. His overall approval rating is towards the lowest point it has been, having stabilised at around 38-39%, the lowest for any president in the modern era at this stage in his presidency, and the proportion of voters who strongly approve of him has declined significantly during his short presidency (graphs come from https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/06/07/strong-approval-of-trump-is-fading-across-a-number-of-demographics/?utm_term=.80aec7d9b809), ie. he seems to be much more successful in turning off supporters than emboldening them:

 

I'm assuming it's the most recent one they've released? If so, they asked 1,212 people and 73% of respondents said they approve of Robert Mueller being named special counsel to oversee the Russia investigation, 15% disapprove.....sounds like a really strong study right at the heart of middle America! Most of those voters also rejected his decision on the Paris Climate Accord but 72% of republicans agreed with it.

REGISTERED VOTERS PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 25% Democrat 31% Independent 37% Other/DK/NA 6%

This is some additional trend info they included - https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us06292017_trends_U29wzguu.pdf/

Quote

TREND: Do you approve or disapprove of the way Donald Trump is handling his job as President?

Btw, his approval rating has gone up in that question....even with Qunnipiac's polls, which I do not believe is particularity representative of either the republicans or a good cross section of American voters.

Edited July 27, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[peterms]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Hilarious 

 

 

 

I was interested in his comment that you need a tough exoskeleton, and also a stiff backbone.

Perhaps one of our engineer friends could advise, but that sounds a bit like a recipe for paralysis to me.

 

[peterms]

Verso E-book sale, Trump-related reading list, 90% off until tomorrow only.  And other stuff.

https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/3066-****-trump-reading-list

[Davkaus]

7 hours ago, Keyblade said:

So John McCain (who's dying btw) checked out of a hospital where he was receiving publicly funded healthcare just to vote to take away other people's healthcare. Couldn't make it up.

The man's a word removed. But people mustn't say a bad word about him, because he fought in the war...

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

I'm assuming it's the most recent one they've released? If so, they asked 1,212 people and 73% of respondents said they approve of Robert Mueller being named special counsel to oversee the Russia investigation, 15% disapprove.....sounds like a really strong study right at the heart of middle America! Most of those voters also rejected his decision on the Paris Climate Accord but 72% of republicans agreed with it.

REGISTERED VOTERS PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 25% Democrat 31% Independent 37% Other/DK/NA 6%

Robert Mueller was previously appointed by a Republican president and Republican congressmen and women went on record talking approvingly of his appointment. He was also not well-known. 73% approving sounds perfectly plausible. 

I assume you've put in those party ID numbers as a gotcha, but it's not a good one . . . there are (far) more registered Democrats than Republicans in the US, so a representative sample will include more registered Democrats. Many 'independents' are in fact party-line Republican voters who simply don't like to be identified as such. 

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Robert Mueller was previously appointed by a Republican president and Republican congressmen and women went on record talking approvingly of his appointment. He was also not well-known. 73% approving sounds perfectly plausible. 

I assume you've put in those party ID numbers as a gotcha, but it's not a good one . . . there are (far) more registered Democrats than Republicans in the US, so a representative sample will include more registered Democrats. Many 'independents' are in fact party-line Republican voters who simply don't like to be identified as such. 

My point is exactly that. It's too technical a question for middle America and therefore cannot be considered a realistic study of what Trump supporters think. Many of them actually think he is doing a good job!!!!  A good 20% didn't know answers to many survey questions.

And no, it's not a gotcha, it's a fact that I researched and didn't simply take for granted because the Washington Post reported it. Many of the independents, particularity after Hillary, will be democrats too!
Furthermore, it was a random survey and so people were asked 'Generally speaking, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, or what?' 

With 50 states, that's asking fewer than 25 people in each state (remember how polarised the US state system makes the US). I'm not questioning the need for the poll but I am certainly questioning the validity of it when used to evidence Trumps demise within his own supporters. Remember, republicans vote for republicans. Trump is a by-product of beating the Democrats.
Also, where have you been for the last five years?!!!! Have you forgotten how completely disconnected journalism/researchers are from reality? 

Edited July 27, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay
Removed line, silly comment - And many more work too hard to answer a phone call for a survey.

[HanoiVillan]

51 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

My point is exactly that. It's too technical a question for middle America and therefore cannot be considered a realistic study of what Trump supporters think. Many of them actually think he is doing a good job!!!! And many more work too hard to answer a phone call for a survey. A good 20% didn't know answers to many survey questions.

And no, it's not a gotcha, it's a fact that I researched and didn't simply take for granted because the Washington Post reported it. Many of the independents, particularity after Hillary, will be democrats too!
Furthermore, it was a random survey and so people were asked 'Generally speaking, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, or what?' 

With 50 states, that's asking fewer than 25 people in each state (remember how polarised the US state system makes the US). I'm not questioning the need for the poll but I am certainly questioning the validity of it when used to evidence Trumps demise within his own supporters. Remember, republicans vote for republicans. Trump is a by-product of beating the Democrats.
Also, where have you been for the last five years?!!!! Have you forgotten how completely disconnected journalism/researchers are from reality? 

I'm not trying to be rude, but none of these are particularly good reasons to doubt the validity of the poll. 

Also, 'remember, Republicans vote for Republicans' is meaningless. Most do, but some don't. If it were a complete statement of fact, vote totals would exactly match party registration, which they obviously don't. Presidents do, in fact, become more or less popular at different points in their presidencies - even with their own supporters!

[Xann]

Quote

 

Trump Administration Worried President Burning Through Minority Scapegoats At Unsustainable Rate

WASHINGTON—Citing today’s announcement that transgender individuals would be banned from serving in any capacity in the United States armed forces, numerous sources within the Trump administration expressed a deep sense of concern Wednesday that the president was burning through minority scapegoats at an unsustainable rate. “I was hoping we’d be able to keep the transgender community in our back pockets for at least another year, but we’re barely six months into the first term and the president goes and wastes that card on military overspending and unpreparedness—we just can’t keep up this kind of pace,” Chief of Staff Reince Priebus reportedly told top advisors in a closed-door meeting this morning, sharing his concern that President Trump had already used the nation’s Hispanics and Muslims as targets of blame for all of the country’s criminal problems and terrorist threats, respectively. “We’ve got to make it through three and a half more years, and there are only so many minorities we can pin the country’s issues on. At this rate, we’ll be holding gay parents responsible for our cultural decline by October and targeting Jews for economic stagnation by the end of this year. Who the hell are we going to hit after that when we get into another crisis? Christ, this is bad.” Priebus reportedly took some solace, however, upon being reminded that the nation’s black community was always available as a suitable fallback scapegoat for any conceivable social or political ill whenever the Trump administration needed one.

 

Onion

[StefanAVFC]

29 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm not trying to be rude, but none of these are particularly good reasons to doubt the validity of the poll. 

Also, 'remember, Republicans vote for Republicans' is meaningless. Most do, but some don't. If it were a complete statement of fact, vote totals would exactly match party registration, which they obviously don't. Presidents do, in fact, become more or less popular at different points in their presidencies - even with their own supporters!

I agree with this. Also id add, in response that 'many trump supporters work too hard to pick up a phone'. Isn't this true of all people? If we're talking something that is representative like a poll?

unless those who vote trump are more likely to be working too hard to pick up the phone?

I'm struggling to infer anything else from that statement otherwise, why include it?

In fact red states rely on government support than blue states.

[mjmooney]

I can never get used to the idea that in the U.S., right-wing = 'red' and (so-called) left-wing = 'blue'. 

[peterms]

21 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I can never get used to the idea that in the U.S., right-wing = 'red' and (so-called) left-wing = 'blue'. 

They also drive on the wrong side of the road and think that nouns and verbs are interchangeable, daft buggers.