Vancvillan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I guess we'll know more next week, but right now it feels weak based on what we know. I read the NYT post above, but the BBC reporting suggests it isn't as clean cut. That last paragraph really jumps out. Trying to see it from a moderate Rep's perspective, it's easy to see how if there isn't much more than covering up a hush money payment, they are going to compare that to Hunter Biden's laptop, Nancy Pelosi's insider trading, etc and see it as electioneering. Not saying it's right, but right is pretty subjective in US politics atm. What is Trump accused of? Anthony Zurcher BBC North America correspondent ReutersCopyright: Reuters In 2016, adult film star Stormy Daniels contacted media outlets offering to sell her account of what she said was an adulterous affair she had with Donald Trump in 2006. Trump's team got wind of this, and his lawyer Michael Cohen paid $130,000 to Daniels to keep quiet. This is not illegal. However, when Trump reimbursed Cohen, the record for the payment says it was for legal fees. Prosecutors say this amounts to Trump falsifying business records, which is a misdemeanour - a criminal offence - in New York. Prosecutors could also potentially allege that this breaks election law, because his attempt to hide his payments to Daniels were motivated by not wanting voters to know he had an affair with her. Covering up a crime by falsifying records would be a felony, which is a more serious charge. Even advocates for prosecution acknowledge that either way, this is by no means a clear-cut case. There is little precedent for such a prosecution, and past attempts to charge politicians with crossing the line between campaign finance and personal spending have ended in failure. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-64993429 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Vancvillan said: I guess we'll know more next week, but right now it feels weak based on what we know. I’m not sure I agree that it’s weak, we actually don’t know what the charges are and we don’t know what evidence they have. We appreciate it’s the weakest politically but unknown whether it is the weakest from a law point of view. All we know is that a Grand Jury has heard from many witnesses and have mountains of corroborating evidence. Until we see the charges on Tuesday at the earliest, everything else is speculation. All we can say is that Cohen went to jail for the same related thing, which remember, he went to jail while Trump was President so now to push this on Biden by the Right seems disingenuous and it’s a State charges not DOJ. Cohen going to jail for related charges of tax evasion and campaign finance related charges…I think it was 8 different charges at the time. Trump is being charged with 34 charges. You’d think if there was enough evidence for Cohen going to jail, there maybe enough related to Trump as well given their relationship at the time and we know that naivety of events in law is not classed as an acceptable defence under law, involvement is sufficient. Edited March 31, 2023 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Feels completely backward that of all the shit that went on and all the things we know he’s responsible for he’s been indicted for the hush money to a porn actress. I guess that got Capone on tax evasion though so that’s just how the justice system works in that country. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 It's blatantly obvious that he's terrified thou so that will be entertaining to follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I think even though some think this is a weak case, I can’t emphasise enough that Trump struggles now to get elite lawyers and they are squaring up against the Manhattan DA’s office. Forget Bragg for a moment, that office vs Trump’s current lawyers seems a mismatch of huge proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, sne said: It's blatantly obvious that he's terrified thou so that will be entertaining to follow. Yep I started moving away from watching it all but I’m pulled back in today and loving watching both sides of the aisle of this. The weekend shows are going to be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) The funny thing is that watching both sides of the aisle for the last few hours, I’ve not seen anybody on the Right say he’s innocent or he’s not done it, they have just basically said he’s done it but so what, it’s politically persecution. So if he’s done it and somebody decides to charge him for it, a defence can’t be well it’s unfair to charge him for a crime he’s committed. It’s obvious that Bragg wanted to get him but if Bragg has evidence to support it and the Grand Jury approved the indictment it doesn’t matter the motivation of the DA. I read a few days ago that it’s something like over 95% of Grand Jury Indictments results in convictions although I can’t find that article just now. Edited March 31, 2023 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Well that's a massive boon for Trump. Massive political boost for him being charged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 56 minutes ago, nick76 said: I’m not sure I agree that it’s weak, we actually don’t know what the charges are and we don’t know what evidence they have. We appreciate it’s the weakest politically but unknown whether it is the weakest from a law point of view. All we know is that a Grand Jury has heard from many witnesses and have mountains of corroborating evidence. Until we see the charges on Tuesday at the earliest, everything else is speculation. All we can say is that Cohen went to jail for the same related thing, which remember, he went to jail while Trump was President so now to push this on Biden by the Right seems disingenuous and it’s a State charges not DOJ. Cohen going to jail for related charges of tax evasion and campaign finance related charges…I think it was 8 different charges at the time. Trump is being charged with 34 charges. You’d think if there was enough evidence for Cohen going to jail, there maybe enough related to Trump as well given their relationship at the time and we know that naivety of events in law is not classed as an acceptable defence under law, involvement is sufficient. Respectfully nick, you quoted my first sentence without including the second, which is pretty important in terms of context. By "weak" I mean that given what has been reported so far (including what was in the rest of my post), I wouldn't exactly call it a slam dunk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, Vancvillan said: Respectfully nick, you quoted my first sentence without including the second, which is pretty important in terms of context. By "weak" I mean that given what has been reported so far (including what was in the rest of my post), I wouldn't exactly call it a slam dunk. Sorry mate, my bad! No intention meant! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted March 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2023 They would probably never have pursued a case like this for someone not named Trump. Still, the law's the law. I don't think this will help him politically. It will fire up his base, but it won't add to it. A lot of Republican's are tired of his shit and would like him to go away so someone else can run against Biden. And this indictment is going to make him even more unhinged, which will drive away more of the people who voted for him in 2020 but aren't hardcore MAGA idiots. The indictment that needs to be made and should bring him down is the Georgia election tampering. The smoking gun there is so plain and obvious and I don't see any way he walks if he's indicted there. But Willis needs to hurry up because the Republican state government is going to pass a law that gives the legislature the power to fire "rogue prosecutors" at all levels of government, which isn't even a thinly veiled attempt to bail out Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) Over two years on from the insurrection, Trump still dominates US politics. That is quite good going for a man that has never won the majority of the votes for any election he has stood in. This will guarantee his nomination and the electorate will have a choice in 2024 between an unpopular doddery old man and a crook and potential dictator. Edited March 31, 2023 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted March 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: Feels completely backward that of all the shit that went on and all the things we know he’s responsible for he’s been indicted for the hush money to a porn actress. I guess that got Capone on tax evasion though so that’s just how the justice system works in that country. Indeed. In less civilised ages the encouragement of insurrection against the state would have branded the man a traitor and had his head lopped off. Instead he's being charged for hush money to a porn star. Can't say I approve, but he is one of the most dangerous men in the western world, and an absolute c*** to boot, so if he goes up the steps I'll be delighted. Hopefully if the ship starts to sink other wronged parties will become bolder, and we'll see him get done for the much worse crimes and abuses of power he brazenly committed. With Russia and China threatening, the world needs a strong US, free from the influence of this constitutional wrecking ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Over two years on from the insurrection, Trump still dominates US politics. That is quite good going for a man that has never won the majority of the votes for any election he has stood in. This will guarantee his nomination and the electorate will have a choice in 2024 between an unpopular doddery old man and a crook and potential dictator. Same as 2020 then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 The news via a US studies professor says there are 'reports' Trump is facing x30 felony charges. Mahoosive if true - he'll be toast on a few of those at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, Jareth said: The news via a US studies professor says there are 'reports' Trump is facing x30 felony charges. Mahoosive if true - he'll be toast on a few of those at least. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, nick76 said: My bad - should never trust the BBC to break things! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 The circus that is the US continues. Glad they have taken on the headline act now we are finished with the Brexit Batshit Multiverse with episodes such as Proroguing and the Black Rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 38 minutes ago, Jareth said: My bad - should never trust the BBC to break things! Except for their own impartiality rules 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts