Popular Post bickster Posted March 8, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2018 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 4 hours ago, villakram said: The same Russians that "hacked" Podesta (accessing a gmail account is hacking, lol), are falsely accused of hacking the DNC (this was clearly an inside job) and got Trump elected (yup, that's why that happened). The same evil Russians that are trying to take over the world etc., etc. 'The same Russians' is the issue here. According to this site, there are about 144 million Russians: Quote There are no official figures for the population of Russia in 2016, but the 2010 census, the results of which were released in late 2011 and early 2012, reports that the official population of Russia was 142.9 million. The most current estimate for 2018 reports that the population is around 143.96 million. I don't imagine there are quite that many factions within Russia or within the various state/political/other institutions, &c. but 'Russia' is not simply one single entity working towards a single goal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 5 hours ago, bickster said: It has been put out by a terror organisation - that's all the NRA are, let's be frank. Why the **** do people love guns so much? The World isn't right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I gather he's signed the executive order to begin his trade war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 13 hours ago, snowychap said: 'The same Russians' is the issue here. According to this site, there are about 144 million Russians: I don't imagine there are quite that many factions within Russia or within the various state/political/other institutions, &c. but 'Russia' is not simply one single entity working towards a single goal. That's so much more nuance than the average cold warrior can tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, bickster said: How can I be reading things into your statement that are not actually there when there they are in plain sight for all to see. You’ve even said it again in this post. E.g., that Canada nonsense. One would almost think you are deliberately doing it. Edited March 8, 2018 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Steel tariffs are just his dotarded reaction to Christopher Steele. Let's pray Kevin Bacon doesn't irk him. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, Brumerican said: Steel tariffs are just his dotarded reaction to Christopher Steele. Let's pray Kevin Bacon doesn't irk him. Or Muzzy Izzet. Oh... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, villakram said: E.g., that Canada nonsense. One would almost think you are deliberately doing it. What on earth are you on about? You’ve completely lost me and I suspect everyone else too My thoughts and prayers are with your logic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 N Korea have invited Trump for face to face talks with Kim Jong Un. They sent a private letter to Trump through South Korea. They have stated that they will suspend work on their nuclear program during talks (heard that one before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post il_serpente Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 Though this shouldn't require pointing out, it seems it may be necessary: Steele's Russian sources would be ones he had relationships with as an MI6 agent. Given that he is still alive and not in a Russian prison, it's reasonable to assume that these were not Russians who are a part of the Kremlin apparatus and Putin's tools. They were also people who had presumably shown over the years to be reliable and trustworthy because it would have been pretty obvious to him over the years if they'd been lying to him That doesn't automatically make their information the gospel, but it certainly argues against the notion that these were shady characters or government operatives who would be trying to mislead Steele. Remember also that, contrary to Devin Nunes' dishonest attempts to portray it otherwise, Steele's investigation that uncovered the info was far from a Democratic operation to dig up salacious dirt on Trump. Republicans had hired Fusion to look into Trump's Russia ties because things looked a little odd. Steele found things that made him sit up and take notice and reported to Fusion. The Republicans stopped funding the work when it was clear Trump would be the nominee, so Fusion went to the Clinton campaign's lawyer and said, "We found some info we really think you'll be interested in." The campaign didn't know that Steele was doing the research or even who he was, and he was never told who Fusion's end client was, though it wouldn't have been hard to deduce after awhile. The Clinton campaign didn't do anything with the info because they were more concerned about trying to figure out who had hacked Podesta's e-mail. Steele went to the FBI on his own because of his concerns over what he learned, and when he felt the FBI wasn't doing anything about it he went to someone he knew at the DOJ. They didn't want anything to do with it, fearing the perception that they were trying to help the Clinton campaign. The majority of the dossier has either been confirmed via other means to have been credible or have shown to be as events played out (e.g., Carter Page secret meetings with Russians, Trump campaign removal form Republican Platform of support for Ukraine, etc.). 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, TheAuthority said: N Korea have invited Trump for face to face talks with Kim Jong Un. They sent a private letter to Trump through South Korea. And he has said that he'll accept the invitation apparently. Great guy. Good hair. Best kind of tyrant. And he's into golf. Nobody knew that, he's only shared it with me. Talked about the wall - very, very interested. Great guy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, il_serpente said: Though this shouldn't require pointing out, it seems it may be necessary: Steele's Russian sources would be ones he had relationships with as an MI6 agent. Given that he is still alive and not in a Russian prison, it's reasonable to assume that these were not Russians who are a part of the Kremlin apparatus and Putin's tools. They were also people who had presumably shown over the years to be reliable and trustworthy because it would have been pretty obvious to him over the years if they'd been lying to him That doesn't automatically make their information the gospel, but it certainly argues against the notion that these were shady characters or government operatives who would be trying to mislead Steele. Remember also that, contrary to Devin Nunes' dishonest attempts to portray it otherwise, Steele's investigation that uncovered the info was far from a Democratic operation to dig up salacious dirt on Trump. Republicans had hired Fusion to look into Trump's Russia ties because things looked a little odd. Steele found things that made him sit up and take notice and reported to Fusion. The Republicans stopped funding the work when it was clear Trump would be the nominee, so Fusion went to the Clinton campaign's lawyer and said, "We found some info we really think you'll be interested in." The campaign didn't know that Steele was doing the research or even who he was, and he was never told who Fusion's end client was, though it wouldn't have been hard to deduce after awhile. The Clinton campaign didn't do anything with the info because they were more concerned about trying to figure out who had hacked Podesta's e-mail. Steele went to the FBI on his own because of his concerns over what he learned, and when he felt the FBI wasn't doing anything about it he went to someone he knew at the DOJ. They didn't want anything to do with it, fearing the perception that they were trying to help the Clinton campaign. The majority of the dossier has either been confirmed via other means to have been credible or have shown to be as events played out (e.g., Carter Page secret meetings with Russians, Trump campaign removal form Republican Platform of support for Ukraine, etc.). Bravo. This is an honest take on things. The only holes rely on the credibility of the individual players. That has been the main attack angle that the republicans have and are utilizing, and we should recognize that some of it has merit. Why have I been shot at for simply finding it amusing that some Russians are not evil. Maybe it's just paying attention to the massive amount of daily bloviating occurring over here. These are strange times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: And he has said that he'll accept the invitation apparently. Great guy. Good hair. Best kind of tyrant. And he's into golf. Nobody knew that, he's only shared it with me. Talked about the wall - very, very interested. Great guy. can you imagine those 2 sharing a nobel prize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Like him or not, pretty amazing news that he and kim jong un (North Korea) will meet. That's a proper event and no President has ever done this before. If Trump gets a deal on the Nukes then that can only be a good thing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Just imagine how smug he will be after getting the Nobel peace prize. Obama got it for doing f all so no doubt Trump and Kim should get it if they meet for scrumpets and tea so they can look good while nothing will actually change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted March 9, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 7 hours ago, villakram said: Bravo. This is an honest take on things. The only holes rely on the credibility of the individual players. That has been the main attack angle that the republicans have and are utilizing, and we should recognize that some of it has merit. Why have I been shot at for simply finding it amusing that some Russians are not evil. Maybe it's just paying attention to the massive amount of daily bloviating occurring over here. These are strange times. The perception that I have, from a distance, and it's all obviously via media (old and new) is that there are a few things not quite tallying in your post. Firstly, with "intelligence" reports, they're not like newspaper articles or TV documentataries or court cases for all sorts of reasons - before something is put out on TV or newspaper the thing is checked over by lawyers and the like to make sure it's something that won't get them sued, or of it's evidence in a court case, it is verifiably, demonstrably true. So because Intelligence often isn't demonstrably verifiable - if it's come from espionnage, from informants, from sources..wherever, unless there are multiple, indpendent sources, it's a piece of information which should be treated on its own as "not definitively true". That would be one line to take, which would address the narrative - When something like a dossier of intelligence is provided, the thing should be looked at as a collection and treated as kind of breadcrumbs - do they provide a reasonable trail, is there an alternative explanation, is there corroboration form other intelligence - all that kind of stuff - surely that's what the Republicans should be asking or suggesting?. So what I'm saying is the Republicans going for the credibility of individual players is absolutely not the right thing to be doing (if we want the truth). It is only the "right" thing to do if they want to avoid addressing the central gist of the intelligence/story, via playing the man not the ball. So Trump or republicans saying it's all because "Crooked Hillary" or whatever is completely avoiding the evidence. It's essentially a distraction technique for the populace and cannot, when exposed to actual neutral scrutiny refute or invalidate whatever evidence is available. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 If they do meet (and it's been confirmed by the White House, so you have to expect it'll never happen), I'm not sure what's more likely. A budding bromance between a would-be dictator and an actual dictator, or World War 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2018 Given his obvious love for dictators and other fascist strongmen, he'll probably love him. Snowy is probably horrifyingly close. If it happens. I sing think this is the first time North Korea has been open to speaking directly with a president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, villakram said: can you imagine those 2 sharing a nobel prize I couldn't imagine them sharing a Twix. Edited March 9, 2018 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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