January 2013 Transfer Talk

[JulieB]

We made a net loss of £19 million on Reo-Coker for fees and wages. Charles N'Zogbia has given us 2 goals, a couple of assists for the £14 million we have spent on him so far. When you consider Stephen Ireland was worth around £8 million of the Milner deal, he's effectively cost us £16.5 million so far. That's just 3 of a vast number of costly players. Just stop for a second to consider this - we have spent £50 million on 3 players that have contributed 4 goals, a handful of assists and mostly very poor performances. At the very least you could say these 3 players have done nothing at all special, and their efforts could have easily been replicated by much, much cheaper alternatives.

Say somehow we did get Lescott and he agreed to a pay cut from 90k/week to 60k/week. We got him at less than the reported asking price, maybe £8 million and gave him a 3.5 year contract. By the end of that contract he will be 34, absolutely no chance of recouping any of the £20 million we would have spent on him, however well he might have played.

We have seen it. But the club finally seem to be learning the lesson. To build a good side, without champions league revenue, a mega-rich owner or racking up huge debts, you cannot make this sort of purchase. If you are going to spend £8 million on a player, they must be young. Their wages cannot break the wage structure. They must be driven to succeed at Aston Villa and they must have a big potential resale value. They cannot be a 30 year old center back, no matter how good you might think he is. That is why I don't think we will try to sign Lescott (unless he is willing to take a really massive wage cut and the fee is unexpectedly low).

Some will say "it's worth it if he keeps us up". But we will never progress as a club if we keep firefighting like this. If we're going to blow big money on a center back, do it on someone like Toby Alderweireld or Simon Kjaer. Young players, but with proven quality. International regulars. Players that could potentially be at Villa for 10 years or make us a fat load of money when they leave. Players currently on salaries we can improve but still manage within the limit. Players that would do anything to prove their worth in the premier league.

Experience is one of a number of attributes a player draws on, and it is one that every player will inevitably gain, you don't have to be naturally blessed with it. Even now when it seems we need experience most, I would take higher overall quality and determination to succeed every single time.

This is what I hope the club's "new philosophy" is all about. It's not about picking a team of lower league players. It's about finding value for money and players that will give everything to succeed at the club, that depend as much on taking the chance the club is giving them as we do on them coming good.

Top post! Which my post kinda followed up on.

Only this season is a little different cos we simply have to stay in Prem Lgue cos of new TV deals.

If Bent has indeed put in a trf request as being rumoured & we've not paid clauses etc or pay offs plus if there's a bidding war on him

we might get far more from the Bent sale than people imagine. Plus we don't know who else may be sold to add to the net spend who

might also be on big wages like Bent - I think Nursey mentioned Gven going if right offer came in for him.

Not forgetting that Lambert has made one very astute signing & has increased our assets by at least £13M because if we sold Benteke I'm sure we'd get £20M.

now & he's only been here 6 months.

So this will be a test of Lescott's character - Are you willing to come & play for AVFC on reasonable wages or are you just interested in the best ££££s you can find.

Methinks the Dario Gradi litmus test should be applied on this one - is Lescott a greedy footballer or is he one of those "good people" as I alluded to in last post.

I think we'll know if Lambert signs him or not, whether he's passed the test or not.

[Kiwivillan]

The most important signing we need to make is a fecking hard as nails CDM. Ideally an undiscovered Wanyama type player on the cheap. I mean FFS we haven't had a proper hard midfielder since Boateng left. NRC could tackle but the rest of his game was poor.

Other than that CB cover. Herd should never play CB or as one of a back three EVER again. Slightly vulnerable LB too. Lichaj, Bennett, and Stevens good cover but would prefer better first choice LB

[JulieB]

Agree with both above posts mostly.

Think on Lescott though, whilst I agree with the premise about learning from mistakes and running a club properly, there is a different between prudence and simple neglect, there are occasions where you need to accept you may make a loss in the long term, i'd say Lescott would be an acceptable example of this if we could get him, baring in mind also how much new revenue is about to flood the league from the most recent TV deal. I agree that in the main, your theory is the right one, and it's the one we'll adopt long term now and Lamberts pretty much said that in different words. Lescott is a good opportunity for us though if he's available and willing to join and I think we'd be mad to pass it up. Kjaer is a pipe dream for me (so is Lescott though!)

Yeah but mistakes have been learnt - We're now open to signing talented players from outside the Premier Lgue from overseas. This didn't happen under MON and his

flawed policy of not signing players unless Prem Lgue proven - cost this club Millions. If people knew some of the players like Falcao who were offered to him before they

were famous but he turned them down cos no Prem Lge experience they'd cry. No wonder he finished off scouts & CEOs. We'd have been in the Top 4 now for sure with

the profits we could have made.

When you think Lerner has spent more than Levy has in the past few years - What have we got to show for it....look at the difference in the squads? Yes they'll sell Bale

but then Spurs will be in a postion to buy more quality young signings - some of whom might be sold if they become superstars like Modric et al.

If we can do a minor Spurs to start with & get Henke to source a few Euro gems like Benteke & then sell them on for oodles in a few years IF Lambert can get the

best out of them & showcase them to the world playing on the Prem Lgue stage, gradually building and become stabilized on the pitch and financially as we go,

then you can see this model working......

But I'm sure whatever happens Lambert will continue to have players watched in the lower leagues & get 30 game dossiers on the Ashley Westwoods et al before

he signs them, so we'll just have to get used to it. But then isn't that what is supposed to happen - the big clubs buy players off the smaller clubs which helps grass roots football and helps money trickle down from the Prem Lgue Pyramid?

Edited January 4, 2013 by JulieB

[Kiwivillan]

Actually after a CDM we need a new CB that is better than any we currently have as I don't think they're good enough to a man, so not just cover as I just posted.

[Avflife]

We need experienced signings for the situation we are in at the moment, fighting relegation for a third consecutive season, its a **** joke. On the issue of selling Bent, what happens if Benteke gets injured (God forbid) and we only have Gabby and Weimann as our fit first choice strikers?? PL would be literally just relegating us right about now if he sold Bent and even worst to a rival club we are fighting for survival.

[DelboyVilla]

We need experienced signings for the situation we are in at the moment, fighting relegation for a third consecutive season, its a **** joke. On the issue of selling Bent, what happens if Benteke gets injured (God forbid) and we only have Gabby and Weimann as our fit first choice strikers?? PL would be literally just relegating us right about now if he sold Bent and even worst to a rival club we are fighting for survival.

I am sure that if Bent is sold then PL will bring in a replacement.

We need Vlaar back desparately and Baker and Gabby. I am less sure as to whether we need N'Zog as he has generally been very poor again this season.

If we can sell/get rid of Bent, Ireland, Hutton and Warnock and bring in a CB, DCM and striker then I think we will be OK this season and stay up. If they are experienced or not I don't care as the likes of Ireland and N'Zog have proved that experience counts for nothing if you're waste of space and just want to pick up your massive wages each week. So long as the players that are brought in a hungry and want to play and are better than what we have, what they have done before counts for little.

[Richard]

We need experienced signings for the situation we are in at the moment, fighting relegation for a third consecutive season, its a **** joke.

i agree that it's a joke.

I do not agree that we need experienced players. We need good players. Experienced does not necessarily = good

[DelboyVilla]

i agree that it's a joke.

I do not agree that we need experienced players. We need good players. Experienced does not necessarily = good

Exactly Rich

Ireland = Experienced = Shit

N'Zogbia = Experienced = Shit

Hutton = Experienced = Shit

So on and so forth.

The signings just need to be:-

A better CB than Herd

A better CM than Bannan

A better CM than Delph

A better Left Back than Bennett/Lichaj/Stevens

None of the above is difficult and there are plenty of Premiership, Championship, D1 and foreign players that fit that bill!!

[abdulaziz1]

Hello ..

For Me .. N'Zogbia hasn't got his proper chance this season !

Look at what he did against Norwich at the Capital One Cup ?!

Hopefully He's available tomorrow ..

And how good is RMC source which linked us to Mouassa Sissoko ? Hope we get him !!

[Raver50032]

Joey Barton can beat a man. He does his best work with a cigar though...

Hi there Ponky...

I really am hoping you are jesting with the Joey Barton thing... I have to say that if Joey Barton ever set foot in this football club as a player, coach or cling-on, then I would return my season ticket. No place in football for him. He's had more chances than a game of Monopoly ™ and I give people more than their fair share of 'benefit of the doubt.' He's a Mark 1 Shit Bag.

Ain't no way he should ever be allowed anywhere near this football club.

:-)

--

Edit - yes, I fell head first into that one... But my remarks still stand - he's a bastard that one.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Raver50032

[Demitri_C]

To be fair abdulaziz is right he has bene injured an din and out the side. he did well at norwich then got injured again, he also single handingly kept Wigan up a season ago. I would keep him and get rid in summer if hestill did not improve.

I would try get rid of hutton, warnock, ireland, KEA and given (wages purposes)

Would keep Bent until summer unless we can sign a proven replacement

Lescott linke dtoday be very happy with that, exactly what we need in defence

[VillakevBromsgrove]

One of the biggest problems we have had over the last few years is these so called experienced players, how many times have we heard of the behind closed door problems, disputes with players, ill discipline from players, A lot of the problems have been rifts in the changing room,

We now have a proper manager who has laid the law down and will stick to it, It has not come as a surprise to me to see the players who have been linked with the problems being made an outcast. This is why I believe Warnock, Bent, Hutton, Dunne (maybe Nzogbia) will be shipped out. A team will function better if the players are together, work for the manager and each other and will run through brick walls, a lot of teams in the past have not been the most technically brilliant but were great sides,

I have said before we should not jump to conclusions and analyze situations we know nothing about and we should have trust in the manager who lives or dies with his decisions,

As has been said, we do not need experienced players but good players to do a job the managers needs doing,

[sonic_bouma]

if we sell Bent Danny Graham would make a decent cheap replacement

or could go more expensive and hijack newcastles move for Remy

[JulieB]

Exactly Rich

Ireland = Experienced = Shit

N'Zogbia = Experienced = Shit

Hutton = Experienced = Shit

So on and so forth.

The signings just need to be:-

A better CB than Herd

A better CM than Bannan

A better CM than Delph

A better Left Back than Bennett/Lichaj/Stevens

None of the above is difficult and there are plenty of Premiership, Championship, D1 and foreign players that fit that bill!!

Exactly Richard & Delboy! Nail on head - it's not necessarily about prem lgue experience so much it's about raising the techincal

quality & the performance levels in each of those positions. MON refused to look outside the Prem Lge Paramaters & look where

that got us - Sidwell, Shorey, Curtis Davies et al......Now we're all demanding that?!!!...... Why?.

Whilst I think Scott Parker maybe Lescott might make some sense - overall there are plenty of players who can come in from

all over just as you say Delboy -

"None of the above is difficult and there are plenty of Premiership, Championship, D1 and foreign players that fit that bill!!"

And

Hopefully if Nursey's right & there is to be a shake up & clearing of decks & a decent Spine to the team

we will see exactly these positions changed

A better CB than Herd - Rumoured to be looking at Lescott etc Improvement? - Could be Tick

A better CM than Bannan - Looks like Dale Stephens - who Omar posted about - according to his fellow pros - 6 1 CM/AM box to box whose like Bannan but better

Palace fans verdict - "Best passer of ball since Danny Murphy at Addicks" - Improvement? - Let's see but if he's tidy player maybe

A better CM than Delph - Needs sorting. Parker being linked - but I think most of us think we need a physically tough, tackling quality DM - Key area to fill as so many have said

A better Left Back than Bennett/Lichaj/Stevens - They are too raw & Lichaj is a RB in anycase - Interesting Nursey has mentioned PL is looking to get someone in also

We don't have to fill all of those positions with Prem Lgue players though - just up the quality & make sure they are an improvement - job done & to me that's enough to stay up & push on a litte up the table to more comfortable position.

The technical quality in the Premiership is really not as high as Murdoch's Sky would have everyone believe ex Pro told me that the other day & he's right when you think about it - the proof of the pudding is that very few English prem league players ie WAG footballers get touted to go abroad to supposed lesser leagues because their standards are higher in technical ability - it's just the pace of the Premier League is much quicker. Of course there are exceptions like Bale but not many. Obviously there's the Modric, Fabregas players who have graced the Premier League stage & been snapped up by European giants - but then they did not come through Premier League systems - they were just bought from abroad before they were famous & shone, then sold on for mega bucks... Hmm maybe Lambert's found one already in Benteke!

The quality of the defending in the Premier League is getting worse! Even Man Ure - can't defend for toffee this season - that's why so many goals being scored.

Flip Stoke's DF are shining - but then - they play anti football IMHO & it should be banned! But you can't argue it's effective.

So whoever we sign & from where ever - as long as we improve key positions & we get a couple of Leaders on the pitch we ought to improve our position

& THEN push on with maybe more replacements/strengthening in the Summer etc etc

Edited January 4, 2013 by JulieB

[Danwichmann]

if we sell Bent Danny Graham would make a decent cheap replacement

or could go more expensive and hijack newcastles move for Remy

Remy has been awful all season. Might be that his head is messed up and he needs a move, but if he brings his current form to the Premier League he'll be a disaster.

[smetrov]

Yeah but mistakes have been learnt - We're now open to signing talented players from outside the Premier Lgue from overseas. This didn't happen under MON and his

flawed policy of not signing players unless Prem Lgue proven - cost this club Millions. If people knew some of the players like Falcao who were offered to him before they

were famous but he turned them down cos no Prem Lge experience they'd cry. No wonder he finished off scouts & CEOs. We'd have been in the Top 4 now for sure with

the profits we could have made.

When you think Lerner has spent more than Levy has in the past few years - What have we got to show for it....look at the difference in the squads? Yes they'll sell Bale

but then Spurs will be in a postion to buy more quality young signings - some of whom might be sold if they become superstars like Modric et al.

If we can do a minor Spurs to start with & get Henke to source a few Euro gems like Benteke & then sell them on for oodles in a few years IF Lambert can get the

best out of them & showcase them to the world playing on the Prem Lgue stage, gradually building and become stabilized on the pitch and financially as we go,

then you can see this model working......

But I'm sure whatever happens Lambert will continue to have players watched in the lower leagues & get 30 game dossiers on the Ashley Westwoods et al before

he signs them, so we'll just have to get used to it. But then isn't that what is supposed to happen - the big clubs buy players off the smaller clubs which helps grass roots football and helps money trickle down from the Prem Lgue Pyramid?

Don't forget to offset some of the lost millions with the prize money for finishing 6th - increased gate receipts and other income that goes with it. - Yes we took a loss on NRC, Beye, etc. But recouped some of the money in other ways.

Not many clubs run at a profit. High wages and signings that flop are financial colleratal. Are we looking at players, for example like Lescot - we will suffer a loss on fees and wages - but will offset some of that by being higher up the league.

[LondonLax]

i agree that it's a joke.

I do not agree that we need experienced players. We need good players. Experienced does not necessarily = good

The good is implied and doesn't need to be spelled out in every post.

But there are good players with potential who lack experience and there are good players with experience who's heads won't drop if we go a goal down in the first 15 mins and then fall to pieces.

This team is in desperate need of the second type of player, the experienced kind, someone who can rally the young players and right the ship when something goes against us.

A lot of people have been saying this from the beginning of the season. I think an experienced partner for Vlaar and an experienced DCM in front of the back 4 would go a long way to correcting our problems.

[PieFacE]

Villa Interest In Lazio Star Luis Cavanda Confirmed

http://www.insidefut...onfirmed/76346/

Edited January 4, 2013 by PieFacE

[CI]

I don't see either Lescott or Parker coming even if the rumours are true. Not sure about Nursey to be honest, nice enough chap but not exactly the font of all knowledge .

So let's see what Day 4 brings.

[Harry]

Thing is most of our woeful players are our own academy players. Not sure what you want lambert to do.

I made exactly the same point on the Joe Bennett thread about our academy players. Personally I think the jury is still out on pretty much all of our 'lower league' signings whereas there are several of our much vaunted academy players who have been shown up as being simply not good enough. Take Lichaj for example, he is 24 and only just managed to get a semi regular start in the frst team and everything I have seen points to the fact he is not good enough.

The problem we have is we have too many younger players we are trying to develop and lack experienced players, although at the moment a big part of that is injuries. We need to bring in a two or three experienced players to get the blend right.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Harry