Ashley Westwood

[Zatman]

yeah I do agree on Westwood being a model professional. you dont have to be brilliant to be that but you have to show more than your ability. Kevin Kilbane would be a good example model professional for me without having a lot of natural talent also Gary O'Neil, James Morrison or Glenn Whelan

Ashley Westwood isnt

[Woodytom]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

James Milner is a regular for the side who sit 2nd in the Premier League and has accrued 61 caps for England over the last seven years. He is absolutely one of the best players in this country. And Cristiano **** Ronaldo is one of the best players ever, let alone what country he plays in. 

If you're disappointed by our players not reaching those standards, I guess it makes sense that you're constantly disappointed by our players, but it doesn't make sense that you direct 90% of that criticism at Ashley Westwood because none of our other players are as good as Milner or Ronaldo either. 

I could have named a host of players much better than James milner. I chose James for his consistency, his determination to improve, his obvious effort, his off-field behaviour, his ability to adapt to different positions and not only get on with it but make the position his own. And then obviously he's talented too.

Here we seem to be referring to asgley Westwood as a model professional because he tries hard and isn't a complete bellend like a lot of players at villa park recently.

Brad friedel would be abother good example imo.

[Dodgyknees]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

yeah I do agree on Westwood being a model professional. you dont have to be brilliant to be that but you have to show more than your ability. Kevin Kilbane would be a good example model professional for me without having a lot of natural talent also Gary O'Neil, James Morrison or Glenn Whelan

Ashley Westwood isnt

Bizarre. I'd say Westwood is exactly like those, especially O'Neill. But I guess when a stick is needed, 'not a modern professional' is another one to beat Westwood with.

[Woodytom]

4 minutes ago, DK82 said:

Do you think it's his fault the club wanted him, played him, paid him and skimped and saved on transfers so one of the only option is Westwood?

I'm guessing it is his fault. He planned this since he was 6. Evil man.

Not his fault in that I blame him but in that he should have been aware of what might have been expected from him as a result. 

[Woodytom]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

yeah I do agree on Westwood being a model professional. you dont have to be brilliant to be that but you have to show more than your ability. Kevin Kilbane would be a good example model professional for me without having a lot of natural talent also Gary O'Neil, James Morrison or Glenn Whelan

Ashley Westwood isnt

Kevin kilbane is a great shout.

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Second paragraph of my initial post on the subject.

Okay, so let's investigate that second paragraph then:

48 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

To be a 'model' you are an influence to others in terms of effort, performance, attitude, desire, development, ability to adapt.

Taking these in order:

• Effort - you've specifically admitted that he 'gives his all' so presumably this isn't your problem
• Performance - this is a question of ability
• Attitude - I don't really understand how 'attitude' is different to effort, but any evidence Westwood has a bad attitude would be welcome
• Desire - don't know how you're measuring this, at least separately from 'performance'
• Development - this is a question of ability
• Ability to adapt - once again, a question of ability

So it certainly seems like the issue is that he can't be a model professional because he isn't very good. If that's the point you're trying to make, I wish you'd just say so and we could all move on. 

[HanoiVillan]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

yeah I do agree on Westwood being a model professional. you dont have to be brilliant to be that but you have to show more than your ability. Kevin Kilbane would be a good example model professional for me without having a lot of natural talent also Gary O'Neil, James Morrison or Glenn Whelan

Ashley Westwood isnt

Can you specifically explain why Glenn Whelan is a model professional but Ashley Westwood isn't? I'm not trying to be obtuse but I don't understand the argument. 

[Woodytom]

In my line of work..... when we refer to customers (as want of a better word), as model customers they go above and beyond what is expected of them. 

I don't think Ashley Westwood does that. I don't think he pushes himself one bit. could he have developed? god knows. I don't think he's tried. I think he's become comfortable in his surroundings which whilst understandable is not commendable and actually as a result.... he's gone backwards.

A model professional is someone who others look up to. who wants to look up to someone who has got worse?

[HanoiVillan]

7 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

In my line of work..... when we refer to customers (as want of a better word), as model customers they go above and beyond what is expected of them. 

I don't think Ashley Westwood does that. I don't think he pushes himself one bit. could he have developed? god knows. I don't think he's tried. I think he's become comfortable in his surroundings which whilst understandable is not commendable and actually as a result.... he's gone backwards.

A model professional is someone who others look up to. who wants to look up to someone who has got worse?

Okay, well thank you for explaining, I feel like I understand what you're saying a bit better . . . I still don't really see how you can know that hasn't tried to push himself, or that he's become comfortable, as opposed to just guessing those things based on his performances, but I guess we need to agree to disagree. I mean, I don't know that you're wrong either. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by HanoiVillan

[Grasshopper]

The Facts are there on the pitch.

1) his mistakes are consistant and get punished to the deteriment to the team.

2) teams target his lack of strength and sideways passing which is something managers and team mates cant do anything about

3) he's still in the team because our squad is not good/big enough

4) he's a on a good wad because a) footballers are well paid b ) mismanagement allowed him contracts beyond his value as a performer

5) he gives his all without causing trouble because a) thats his character b ) he probably realises that his talents are not all that much but hey, one day he'll retire from football as a millionaire and enjoy life as a family man. So he can well afford to accept the good with the bad.

—---------------------------------

As a life long fan it simply hurts to have both, players that are not good enough for AVFC and players who take the piss.

I'd like to include Owners, Ceo's, managers and backroom staff to the list of shit performers and piss-takers.

I believe absolutely that it is an honour to serve AVFC in any form, be it on or off the pitch. The hurt concluded because of underperformers & pisstakers can only lead to fans being anything from, disappoint to hatred and everything inbetween, depending on how deep it hurts you.

The demise over the last 5 + years has lead me to hate all who have, imho, wronged the honour of AVFC and abused us for their own gain (loss for RLs case).

AW and the like, honourable shite

GA/JL and the like, dishonourable shite

and everyone in between (AH CN'Z BG....)

Have no place in our history, the now or future.

AW (and a number of others) is a stain on our club, SB is busy keeping the stains to a minimum.

My only hope is that the stains be not costly.

Villa till I Die

 

[markavfc40]

On 27/11/2016 at 13:18, Woodytom said:

Do you think that is acceptable for a senior player at this level on 35k a week? 

I don't know if since relegation that he is on that kind of money but no I don't consider average or below average performances good value for 35k a week at this level. No one is arguing that Westwood is a good player or good value for the wages he is on.

Why Lambert/Sherwood/Lerner allowed him that kind of money is a question of judgement for them. Same could be said for a number of managers in regard to a number of players past and present. All Westwood or any player can do regardless of if they are on 1k or 100k a week is their best which I believe he does. That being the case I see no benefit in booing/verbally abusing a guy whose only crime is doing his his best and it simply not being good enough.

Edited December 2, 2016 by markavfc40

[Zatman]

42 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Can you specifically explain why Glenn Whelan is a model professional but Ashley Westwood isn't? I'm not trying to be obtuse but I don't understand the argument. 

in terms of natural talent I wouldnt even separate them by much but Whelan does a lot more around the pitch and doesnt buckle when pressured and has improved his game year on year to adapt to systems. he was rumoured be 1st player out when Hughes came in but he has adjusted his game for their style of play.

highly respected by managers like Pulis, Trappatoni, Hughes and MON and is vice captain for Stoke

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Bunnski said:

Lol, its a good thing Westwood isnt as touchy as yourself about getting a bit of stick and rather than whinge about it he runs himself into the ground every game for the club we all support.

 

Westy, I love you x

Who is touchy? I find this idea you're clueless if you don't rate what he does hilarious. 

It appears every so often and is good for a chuckle. 

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Whelan does a lot more around the pitch and doesnt buckle when pressured

Lack of ability maybe but comfortably one of our hardest working.

Doesn't buckle? Like Westwood didn't yesterday after his mistake.

I can't believe anyone is even having to justify 'he's a model professional' 

Not every single thing about him is awful, you know? Just because you don't rate a player doesn't mean they have to be bad at EVERYTHING.

[HanoiVillan]

9 minutes ago, Zatman said:

in terms of natural talent I wouldnt even separate them by much but Whelan does a lot more around the pitch and doesnt buckle when pressured and has improved his game year on year to adapt to systems. he was rumoured be 1st player out when Hughes came in but he has adjusted his game for their style of play.

highly respected by managers like Pulis, Trappatoni, Hughes and MON and is vice captain for Stoke

Fair enough, thank you for the explanation  Glenn Whelan is not a player I know much about. 

I think I'm starting to see what you and Woodytom are talking about, it's just the intangibility of it I find bothersome. 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Lack of ability maybe but comfortably one of our hardest working.

Doesn't buckle? Like Westwood didn't yesterday after his mistake.

I can't believe anyone is even having to justify 'he's a model professional' 

Not every single thing about him is awful, you know? Just because you don't rate a player doesn't mean they have to be bad at EVERYTHING.

nobody said he is rubbish at everything. he is good at pointing and for losing the ball in dangerous areas

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

nobody said he is rubbish at everything. he is good at pointing and for losing the ball in dangerous areas

haha ha

ha

[VillanousOne]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

It is a strange old thread this and I am amazed at a time when for the first time in years we are doing well that this thread is one of the most popular.

The general consensus seems to be that he is not a good player who we could do with knocking down the pecking order in January.

Where the debate rages is the amount of abuse he is getting especially at games and I gotta be honest I don't get it. Westwood has never disrespected the club, never tweeted bullshit against us the fans, never made the media rags for the wrong reasons. Pretty much in the whole time he has been here I believe he has done his best and game in game out gave his all in terms of effort. His only crime is that his best most of the time hasn't been good enough. The fact he has still found himself a regular in the side isn't his fault though. It is the fault of numerous managers, and/or an owner for not providing the funds to replace him with better.

Therefore for me blame Lerner, blame Lambert, Sherwood, RDM but don't blame the lad who is being picked, as the current manager deems we don't have better, and who is doing his best and don't abuse him at the games as that certainly isn't going to enhance his performance.

I thought he had his best spell under Sherwood also. I think managers see him as a safe option, right attitude, does the basics, tries hard, works hard.

I think we have better options, but i also think until the fans get behind him and stop booing him he isn't going to get the confidence to improve as I do think he is better than he is now.

[tismyk]

46 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

I thought he had his best spell under Sherwood also. I think managers see him as a safe option, right attitude, does the basics, tries hard, works hard.

I think we have better options, but i also think until the fans get behind him and stop booing him he isn't going to get the confidence to improve as I do think he is better than he is now.

Didn't hear any boo`s for him saturday

[Woodytom]

7 minutes ago, tismyk said:

Didn't hear any boo`s for him saturday

Me neither. even when he made the mistake. Not sure why people keep banging on about the boos.