AVTuco Posted February 22, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Even if you're right, he'll need to give 100% for himself. For what it's worth, I'll never believe he won't give his all for the team. Edited February 22, 2015 by AVTuco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Even if you're right, he'll need to give 100% for himself. For what it's worth, I'll never believe he won't give his all for the team. Why does he need to give 100% for himself? Wasn't it rumoured that he had already signed a pre-contract anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Isa Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 I follow Feyenoord and therefore would like to think I can say this with some element of certainty but I have no qualms over Vlaar's professionalism. Yesterday was down to moments of idiocy, nothing more. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 22, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2015 Agreed. And a couple of months ago I was saying I'd be happy with Vlaar not playing for us again seeing as he's gone at the end of the season. But since he's come back he's shown that he is still our best centre back IMO. Yesterday was **** stupid. There's no excusing it. It was an awful mistake and a silly decision. But that's what it was. A mistake. I don't think it reflects his performance which I would have rated as good if it wasn't for that **** up. If we're going to get out of the shit we are in we need our best players and, like him or not, Vlaar is one of them. Were we safe then I'd be happy to leave him out. But we are very very unsafe and we need him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Agreed. And a couple of months ago I was saying I'd be happy with Vlaar not playing for us again seeing as he's gone at the end of the season. But since he's come back he's shown that he is still our best centre back IMO. Yesterday was **** stupid. There's no excusing it. It was an awful mistake and a silly decision. But that's what it was. A mistake. I don't think it reflects his performance which I would have rated as good if it wasn't for that **** up. If we're going to get out of the shit we are in we need our best players and, like him or not, Vlaar is one of them. Were we safe then I'd be happy to leave him out. But we are very very unsafe and we need him. I've been a big fan of Vlaar for quite some time. I agree that, on his day, he's our best defender. But, my worry is that he is not committed to the club. If he already has a deal lined up, should we really be trusting him with leading this team of players? He's hardly played this season and yesterday was just shocking for someone of his quality. He really failed us. I like him and have always defended him but, with him not committing his future to us, and with his injury record, I think we should pass the baton on to someone who is committed to the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 But since he's come back he's shown that he is still our best centre back IMO. I'd say that even in the two games that he has been back, Clark has been the better of the two. And unfortunately that **** up did happen, so it kind of ruins a lot of the credit he would have otherwise got from yesterday's game. Clark played just as well, if not better, and also didn't give away an injury time penalty (therefore losing us the game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) His mistake for the penalty was brainless and rash and something that I'd expect from Nathan Baker, not a player of his calibre and intelligence. Which is why I was so furious with him afterwards. However I can't see how anybody can derive from it that he is lacking in commitment. This is purely being based on the refusal to renew rather than any indicators on the pitch. If anything, the mistake demonstrated the opposite. The motive behind taking Moses out was obviously a desperate attempt to rectify the initial error. The irrationality was driven by desire. He looked visibly gutted when it was awarded and the subsequent walk off too. If he starts wimping out of challenges, aerial duels etc. that's when I will reassess whether he is playing to capacity. It wasn't very long ago that I said we should prioritise the Clark-Okore partnership with a view to the long-term. That was when I was not entertaining the possibility of relegation of course. Now the realisation of a do-or-die situation has become apparent, I want Vlaar to start every remaining game (when possible). He is one of a select few leaders in an otherwise rudderless squad. Edited February 22, 2015 by Isa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I couldn't agree more with that Isa, every word of it (except the knock on Baker, I guess!). The problem was not, in any way, a lack of commitment. A lack of composure, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I couldn't agree more with that Isa, every word of it (except the knock on Baker, I guess!). The problem was not, in any way, a lack of commitment. A lack of composure, sure. Perhaps somewhat harsh, yes, given that he did look much improved this term. It's just that due to the injury and him losing his place since, it wasn't over a big enough sample of games to reverse my position on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Leaving this here as going off-topic, but if we do go down I think will Baker will stay, and be a very important player in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) I'm not saying Vlaar made the errors because he isn't committed. I'm saying that a guy who's hardly played since the world cup, and who has been linked with clubs all over the place whilst not signing a new deal, is hardly the right role model to lead a team in a relegation battle. I like the guy as a player, I just prefer him not to be leading our team in the current situation. Edited February 22, 2015 by villarocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 22, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2015 Even if you're right, he'll need to give 100% for himself. For what it's worth, I'll never believe he won't give his all for the team. Why does he need to give 100% for himself? Wasn't it rumoured that he had already signed a pre-contract anyway Rumours are rumours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitier Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 But since he's come back he's shown that he is still our best centre back IMO. I'd say that even in the two games that he has been back, Clark has been the better of the two. And unfortunately that **** up did happen, so it kind of ruins a lot of the credit he would have otherwise got from yesterday's game. Clark played just as well, if not better, and also didn't give away an injury time penalty (therefore losing us the game). Centre backs play as a pair, so you have to consider the effect that one has on the other. Clark has played well alongside Vlaar, but he was often taking up a defensive position far too deep when playing alongside Okore. I would say that Vlaar improves Clark, and therefore the whole defence, so his contribution isn't just what you actually see him doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 He made a very stupid mistake but let's not forget how immense he was for us last season and the fact that despite that, he is still our best defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm not saying Vlaar made the errors because he isn't committed. I'm saying that a guy who's hardly played since the world cup, and who has been linked with clubs all over the place whilst not signing a new deal, is hardly the right role model to lead a team in a relegation battle. I like the guy as a player, I just prefer him not to be leading our team in the current situation. I think the whole role model thing is over-rated. I can't think of many Villa players BETTER suited to soldier us through a releg fight. My only worry is that the mistake he made with Stoke will make him gun-shy in the box. He needs to learn fast and put it behind him. His aggression as a tackler and an interceptor can help us break other clubs' momentum against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I was amazed he was picked in the first place, that's the error for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Why, when fit he is our best defender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Agreed. Like I said above I was beginning to not believe that but the games he's been back in he's proved he's still quality. Obviously apart from that moment on Saturday! Not sure he's worth signing a new contract, given his injuries. but we should be using him while we can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Why, when fit he is our best defender? Not had a long run of games, for me Okore + Clark is our strongest CB pair. Not saying either of those two don' thave a horrendous mistake in them, just I feel a bit more comfortable watching when those two are at the back. I keep replaying that Vlaar first touch in my head, even when I really don't want to and have much better things to think about, it's just awful. I mean it couldn't have gone worse for him, clearly it's not under control and coud have gone anywhere so Vlaar was unlucky it turned into the perfect pass, but it's AWFUL. Why is his body shape like that? Does he think he's going to jink round the striker and waltz off up the field? He's not even remotely right in terms of shape and balance to get that ball under control, did he not see it coming? The mind boggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think he was trying to pass it to the fullback and just got caught with a bad touch. It's a bad mistake followed up with a poor decision to slide tackle. I think we were in the mindset of trying to win the game at that point. If we were 1-0 up I'd wager Ron would have hoofed that into row ZZZZZZ. But as it was I think he was trying to keep possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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