sonic_bouma Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 . So what are people really expecting him to do. Have a shot? Take a player on? If Ireland's only attribute is being able to pass to a player making an intelligent run then he is unworthy of a place in the team... because there are players out there who can do that and much much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted August 20, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 20, 2012 . So what are people really expecting him to do. Have a shot? Take a player on? If Ireland's only attribute is being able to pass to a player making an intelligent run then he is unworthy of a place in the team... because there are players out there who can do that and much much more If you're expecting him to be Gerrard-type player then you're going to be extremely disappointed as he isn't. He's not a player who's going to take a player on, but intelligent footballers don't need to be either. I'd like him to shoot more, but he seemed to be playing quite deep against West Ham, whether he was instructed to do that or chose to I don't know, but he needs to play further up the pitch IMO. West Ham are also a tricky team to play against, they play so deep and compact, it was difficult to find any time or space. Very early days yet. If Ireland doesn't do the business this year then I think we should all move on. But he deserves another year with us from his performance/efforts last season IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 If you look at when he had his 'season' at City he had clever players making clever runs, creating gaps in even the most organised defences meaning he could pick his pass to the best option. If at Villa he's only got Bent making intelligent runs, it's not hard for a defence o double up on him making Ireland's ability on the ball ineffective. Ideally he needs 2 wide players dragging the full backs awayf from the penalty box, leaving one CB to close down the ball and one to cover Bent (who should be able to find some space). It's abit like when we had ash Young and everything had to go through him, teams would double up on him and we'd struggle to create anything. . Brilliant! So all we need to do is go out and sign about 4 new attacking players just so Ireland can demonstarte his array of clever balls.... OR we should not bow down to his needs for the sake of 20m and go and buy a player similar to Michu and Sigurdsson (bought for peanuts) who actually shoot from outside the box and actually try to be a threat on the opponents goal..... I think Ireland is simply not worth the hassle of building our entire attacking players around.... he has done nothing to warrant that respect at all... The one player we should be thinking about building our attack around is a guy who has delivered all his career, is our captain and has produced the goods already for Villa... Darren Bent.... If Lambert is signing players thinking "I wonder if this will help Stevie" im gonna be disappointed..... Focus on Bent Paul! Basically we need to sign Robinho then we might get something out of Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Sonic Bouma, In a team that is attacking well Ireland does score goals. There may well be players out there that are better than Ireland but for whatever reason they remain out there and not in a Villa shirt. Ireland was selected on Saturday (I assume) because the manager considered him to be the best player at the club in that position and therefore worthy of a starting place. All I'm arguing is to get get the best out of Ireland (the player we have and seem to be picking) the team needs to be playing in a certain way, I would argue that as the manager selected Ireland he would want his team to play in tha way, and I'm fairly confident Bent would be happy to see the team play in that way. I personally would be horrified if our main attacking threat came from midfielders taking pop shot, which you seem to lace a lot of importance on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Basically we need to sign Robinho then we might get something out of Ireland. No, I think we have the type of players we need in N'Zog, Gabby, Holman and KEA, we just need the players on the pitch to offer more to create the spaces Ireland or anybody playing in the hole needs to influence a game. I honestly think that replace Ireland with Sigurdsson or anybody else in a similar style and we'd be having a similar conversation after Saturday's game, perhaps with the exception that they may have had more shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted August 20, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 20, 2012 Basically we need to sign Robinho then we might get something out of Ireland. No, I think we have the type of players we need in N'Zog, Gabby, Holman and KEA, we just need the players on the pitch to offer more to create the spaces Ireland or anybody playing in the hole needs to influence a game. I honestly think that replace Ireland with Sigurdsson or anybody else in a similar style and we'd be having a similar conversation after Saturday's game, perhaps with the exception that they may have had more shots. I agree. As a team we don't move forward well at all. We haven't done for as long as I can remember unless on the counter attack. Hopefully Lambert can change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I have said for so long that we should sell. He improved last season and isn't a bad player at all but I think we need a slight reality check of where we are as a club now, we are working within a tight budget, we simply can't afford for our highest paid players(or player, depending on how much he's on?) to simply do what Ireland is doing now which in essence is passing a ball neatly, especially in the position he is which means he should be scoring and creating goals. Of course he's going to create more chances if we find better players to play with but we currently don't and also won't find those players unless we shift a lot of players on and quickly. Obviously easier said than done but sell Ireland and re-invest in the squad. He's simply not worth what we are paying him for and he has to go. (The only way he should be able to stay is either a big wage reduction which isn't going to happen) or he magically becomes our best player and when I say that, I mean best player within a very competitive squad who have a good season and he ends up with 10 goals, 10 assists etc...and clearly that will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Agreed. He's not a bad player but I've never believed that he justifies the wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Who can we realistically get though? For however much we generate for Ireland and someone that would want to a club that is mid table premier league. If that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBGB Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I thought he was one of the best players on Saturday, and probably the only one capable of making a forward pass of any distance and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Who can we realistically get though? For however much we generate for Ireland and someone that would want to a club that is mid table premier league. If that I'm not a scout and don't watch games all across the world but you only have to look at say Michu for £2 million to Swansea (obviously only first game) but there are going to players out there who can do what he is doing for a lot less money. He is our 'attacking' support from midfield and you could count both his assists and goals for this club on one hand in the 2 years he's been here. Not just a replacement because do we even need a replacement, what does he actually do? Money could be better spend on a wide player, a clever striker, an attacking left back, a strong holding midfielder. We have so many areas where we can improve. Pretty much all of our midfielders like to get on the ball and pass the ball but the biggest moan I heard about Saturday was isolation of Bent, so what exactly is Ireland meant to be doing? If he was doing what he asked, well to be honest, I'd rather stick Barry Bannan there and spend the money in other areas as already pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for Ireland. Quality players adapt their game to the players around him. If Irelands game in that one dimensional he can't fit into it, get rid. He's been a Villa player for 2 years now and has has 1 great game a couple of good games, a few ok games and that's it. That's what we're getting for £60k a week. Most of the time he lies on the periphery of the game and adds very little. It amuses me how much backing he gets when Darren Bent gets so much stick who has effectively done his job he's been bought for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Ireland's style needs good creative players around him. His vision is outstanding. Some of the passes he makes are world class and I often feel like he needs some better players around him. I'd love to see the likes of Johnson and maybe Adams in our midfield with him to see what he can produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tismyk Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Get rid of asap, does not offer anything to the team, too lightweight and dosn`t want to be here, last bit is from an ITK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 last bit is from an ITK Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Get rid of asap, does not offer anything to the team, too lightweight and dosn`t want to be here, last bit is from an ITK Every time Ireland puts on a Villa kit he is always working and trying to play his best. He offers great passing and the ability to change a game. As for light weight, is Delph, Kea, Bannan, and N'zogbia not considered light weight? Getting rid of Ireland would assure relegation in my opinion. Bent already gets minimal chances per game so getting rid of the man making those opportunities would be suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Stephen Ireland is a complete red herring and fraud of a player I think by mid september lambert will have finally come to his senses and will have seen enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted August 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2012 Lambert knows there's a player inside Ireland and N'Zogbia and he believes he can get the best out of them and I believe he can also, so let's let him get on with it, we know he's no miracle worker and got a massive job on his hands. I believe we will see the Ireland we all thought we were getting soon enough, he's a very clever talented player, have faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The way I see it is we have 3 options: 1. Stick with him and see how he performs when the rest of what is quite a new team (if selection remains like it was on Sat) settle and get used to each other. 2. Get rid and buy 2 proper wingers (tough task to do either if you ask me) and set up in a proper 4-4-2 getting crosses in. 3. Get rid and find a cheap, but good enough, second striker/attacking midfielder who can come in and create chances out of nothing. For me I dont think we can get the business done to replace Ireland with 2 decent wingers, and I think anybody we signed coming into that supporting role would struggle until the rest of the midfield are creating the movement and space required to pull a defence out of position. It's not about making excuses for Ireland, it's about having a rational conversation about what he does best and what is needed to get the best out of him, because whether we like it or not we're continuing to pay his wages, so makes sense to me to try and get the best out of him. What is apparent so far is that Lambert clearly places a lot of emphasis on passing the ball, and there's few better passers of the ball at the club but with Bent the only option he's not going to unpick the defence every time he gets the ball. He needs the support of the rest of the team to create space and opportunity for the killer pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Get rid of asap, does not offer anything to the team, too lightweight and dosn`t want to be here, last bit is from an ITK Every time Ireland puts on a Villa kit he is always working and trying to play his best. He offers great passing and the ability to change a game. As for light weight, is Delph, Kea, Bannan, and N'zogbia not considered light weight? Getting rid of Ireland would assure relegation in my opinion. Bent already gets minimal chances per game so getting rid of the man making those opportunities would be suicide. How many assists has he made for Bent in the time he's been at this club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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