Speculation: Ron Vlaar (Feyenoord)

[lexicon]

as opposed to the everything is great with villa agenda?

People refusing to condemn the club because of a lack of info can not be seen to have an 'everything is great' agenda. People who DO want to condemn the club despite a lack of information, can only be seen to have a negative agenda. Some have made their minds up and some are being more circumspect. I'm sorry if you can't see the distinction between the 2 approaches.

Exactly - it's as if people just want to have a strong opinion on something for the sake of it.

All I know is my gut says maybe.

[Big_John_10]

Everything Vlaar, his agent and his club have said has been dismissed as moaning, rubbish, manipulative and acts of a club desperate to sell.

Even though there is little logic put forward behind these thoughts.

Lambert said we had an informal chat and that's taken as complete gospel.

And that's not having an agenda?

I've fully accepted there could be good reasons why this deal has gone wrong, i don't see many people defending our actions willing to accept we might have been in the wrong though. Yet I have the agenda?

[BOF]

Everything Vlaar, his agent and his club have said has been dismissed as moaning, rubbish, manipulative and acts of a club desperate to sell.

No, it hasn't. Even if you say it has. What it has been, is it has been seen as one side of a story. A side that might be true but could easily be self-serving given the motives. Consistently in this discussion, those who choose not to make their minds up are just waiting to see what our side says. That's really all there is to it.

[Big_John_10]

Will be interesting to see if he plays in their champs league qualifier on the 31st.

I would have thought if they are desperate to sell they wouldn't want to cup tie him and limit his options.

[BOF]

Yeah if they do use him then it at least makes him less attractive to any club in European competition this season. My fear; if we do want him; was that he'd be nicked from under our noses.

[briny_ear]

if he didn't want to sign him, why have him over for a chat?

to understand his personality, attitude etc.

And I suppose your argument would be that he didn't like his personality so decided not to pursue it?

The very simple point I am making is that, if Lambert decided not to follow it up, he should have told Vlaar.

And if he did tell Vlaar, and Vlaar has just been lying ever since, Lambert should tell that to the world.

This is a fairly easy point to understand, I hope.

Whatever the outcome of that discussion at Villa Park, it would have been straightforward decency to let the other party know. Vlaar clearly was not told anything (unless he is a barefaced liar) and has got no response when trying to find out.

That is just a poor way to behave as a club.

That is all.

[Stevo985]

I haven't exactly been following this to the letter.

I was under the impression that we could well have still wanted to sign Vlaar, but wanted to wait until we got back from the states, and as a result didn't want to abide by Feyenoord's ultimatum of monday so pulled the plug.

Is there anything to disprove this?

[Copey11]

I think we are exploring another more attractive option at CB. And if that is true, we have handled this perfectly.

PL's job is to identify targets A, B, C and suss out the potential for getting them. Part of that process is "interviewing" the player, speaking with the agent and selling club, and "selling" the Villa.

This is not a linear process meaning we don't necessarily have the luxury of going from target A to B to C and making a decision. Perhaps Vlaar is target B and PL has done his due diligence, but also knows that target A may be available but hasn't had the opportunity to go through his process but expects to.

So he confirms that he has had a "chat" with Vlaar, but it is far from any decision. He was pretty clear about that. He has done an excellent job of selling the Villa, Vlaar has said as much. Feyenoord is prepared to make a deal, they have said as much. Villa is not ready to make a deal but - and here is the important part - have not dismissed nor put a timeline on a deal for Vlaar.

For Villa, this keeps the Vlaar deal "warm" perhaps while another more attractive target is pursued on Villa/target A's timeline, with Vlaar still an alternative. There is risk here that someone swoops in and gets Vlaar, or that he may decide to stay (little risk that Feyenoord gets in the way due to a release clause), but perhaps the fact that he might not be target A means that Villa is prepared to take that risk and even walk away if necessary.

Now Vlaar, Feyenoord, and agent all have a motivation to get this done, but it is purely that - their motivation. So one would expect the actions/ultimatums to come from that side.

I believe this to be the case, and if we end up with a better (in PL's eyes) CB target we are a stronger club for it, and if we don't and end up with Vlaar then PL deemed him worthy of bringing in. If neither happens, or Vlaar refuses to come to us or someone else comes in, that's fine too because it means that PL didn't sign someone just to sign someone, but rather pursued a first choice rather than just take the first thing that came along.

And I don't understand why this is deemed as proof that there is a sell to buy policy. I do believe PL agrees that there needs to be balance in the squad and as pointed out earlier in the thread we would have a bit of a glut of CBs were we to not offload another, and I don't think Vlaar, in PL's mind, is his top target deemed worthy of taking on another CB. Perhaps he thinks he is just somewhat better than Collins, but not so much that he warrants carrying another CB. But if he has an opportunity to sign his top target, he could justify that to Randy and say he'll do everything he can to offload someone, but he HAS to have target A.

Interesting to watch though. And remember, none of this happens without the picture getting around and Vlaar and Feyenoord being put on the defensive about it.

[Houlston]

if he didn't want to sign him, why have him over for a chat?

to understand his personality, attitude etc.

And I suppose your argument would be that he didn't like his personality so decided not to pursue it?

The very simple point I am making is that, if Lambert decided not to follow it up, he should have told Vlaar.

And if he did tell Vlaar, and Vlaar has just been lying ever since, Lambert should tell that to the world.

This is a fairly easy point to understand, I hope.

You suppose correct.

Maybe he should tell the world in order to rest your suspicion. For me I couldnt give a toss. Vlaar came over, he went back he whined. So what? I dont need the club to constantly keep me updated or to try and justify every bad bit of press created by players and agents who dont matter an ounce to me. Then if the club did say anything its likely this would be labelled as just doing PR. And even if he has been treated "badly" as its laughably being termed, then again, so what, I'm sure he'll be just fine.

This is a fairly easy point to understand, I hope.

[PieFacE]

I haven't exactly been following this to the letter.

I was under the impression that we could well have still wanted to sign Vlaar, but wanted to wait until we got back from the states, and as a result didn't want to abide by Feyenoord's ultimatum of monday so pulled the plug.

Is there anything to disprove this?

No I don't think so.

We may have been waiting to get back from the States, or we may have been waiting to sell a player... either way we obviously didn't want to rush the deal in the time-frame that Feyenoord wanted too.... and why should we?

I guess the thing that i'd like to know is, which of these scenarios happened...

a) Paul Lambert really wanted to sign Vlaar but Randy said no, not until a player leaves.

Paul Lambert wanted Vlaar but to conduct the deal in his own time.

c) Paul Lambert doesn't feel he wants him.

I suspect it's B.

[Big_John_10]

I believe this to be the case, and if we end up with a better (in PL's eyes) CB target we are a stronger club for it, and if we don't and end up with Vlaar then PL deemed him worthy of bringing in. If neither happens, or Vlaar refuses to come to us or someone else comes in, that's fine too because it means that PL didn't sign someone just to sign someone, but rather pursued a first choice rather than just take the first thing that came along.

And what if he was Lamberts number 1 target? What if Lambert has had to keep quiet because Lerner has told him that he must sell a CB before buying a new one. What if this has caused Vlaar to turn us down and we end up with a B or C target defender?

Your scenarios could well be true but I think it's just as likely that it hasn't all gone to plan.

I guess we'll only know when we see the defender we end up with however i suspect in terms of Vlaar no side will admit mistakes.

[Big_John_10]

I haven't exactly been following this to the letter.

I was under the impression that we could well have still wanted to sign Vlaar, but wanted to wait until we got back from the states, and as a result didn't want to abide by Feyenoord's ultimatum of monday so pulled the plug.

Is there anything to disprove this?

No I don't think so.

We may have been waiting to get back from the States, or we may have been waiting to sell a player... either way we obviously didn't want to rush the deal in the time-frame that Feyenoord wanted too.... and why should we?

I guess the thing that i'd like to know is, which of these scenarios happened...

a) Paul Lambert really wanted to sign Vlaar but Randy said no, not until a player leaves.

Paul Lambert wanted Vlaar but to conduct the deal in his own time.

c) Paul Lambert doesn't feel he wants him.

I suspect it's B.

I certainly hope it's B or C.

[daggy_333]

I believe this to be the case, and if we end up with a better (in PL's eyes) CB target we are a stronger club for it, and if we don't and end up with Vlaar then PL deemed him worthy of bringing in. If neither happens, or Vlaar refuses to come to us or someone else comes in, that's fine too because it means that PL didn't sign someone just to sign someone, but rather pursued a first choice rather than just take the first thing that came along.

And what if he was Lamberts number 1 target? What if Lambert has had to keep quiet because Lerner has told him that he must sell a CB before buying a new one. What if this has caused Vlaar to turn us down and we end up with a B or C target defender?

Your scenarios could well be true but I think it's just as likely that it hasn't all gone to plan.

I guess we'll only know when we see the defender we end up with however i suspect in terms of Vlaar no side will admit mistakes.

Eternal pessimist. I get the feeling that you would be happy if we end up with choice B or C just so you can say i told you so!

[Stevo985]

I haven't exactly been following this to the letter.

I was under the impression that we could well have still wanted to sign Vlaar, but wanted to wait until we got back from the states, and as a result didn't want to abide by Feyenoord's ultimatum of monday so pulled the plug.

Is there anything to disprove this?

No I don't think so.

We may have been waiting to get back from the States, or we may have been waiting to sell a player... either way we obviously didn't want to rush the deal in the time-frame that Feyenoord wanted too.... and why should we?

I guess the thing that i'd like to know is, which of these scenarios happened...

a) Paul Lambert really wanted to sign Vlaar but Randy said no, not until a player leaves.

Paul Lambert wanted Vlaar but to conduct the deal in his own time.

c) Paul Lambert doesn't feel he wants him.

I suspect it's B.

is what my gut says as well.

I guess we won't know until more info comes out.

[CI]

Hopefully lessons have been learnt from this saga

[Ginko]

Saga? Christ on a bike, do you overreact to everything?

[Big_John_10]

I believe this to be the case, and if we end up with a better (in PL's eyes) CB target we are a stronger club for it, and if we don't and end up with Vlaar then PL deemed him worthy of bringing in. If neither happens, or Vlaar refuses to come to us or someone else comes in, that's fine too because it means that PL didn't sign someone just to sign someone, but rather pursued a first choice rather than just take the first thing that came along.

And what if he was Lamberts number 1 target? What if Lambert has had to keep quiet because Lerner has told him that he must sell a CB before buying a new one. What if this has caused Vlaar to turn us down and we end up with a B or C target defender?

Your scenarios could well be true but I think it's just as likely that it hasn't all gone to plan.

I guess we'll only know when we see the defender we end up with however i suspect in terms of Vlaar no side will admit mistakes.

Eternal pessimist. I get the feeling that you would be happy if we end up with choice B or C just so you can say i told you so!

What a stupid thing to say.

Do you think any season ticket holders enjoyed last season just because they got to say "I told you so"?

Have you forgot one of the worst seasons the club has ever had only a few months ago? Hardly surprising some fans aren't a glass half full when it comes to Randy Lerner making decisions.

[Stevo985]

I wonder if we'd be discussing any of this had Vlaar not been snapped at VP on that tour?

[AVFCforever1991]

Guessing its

Scenario B

[CI]

Saga? Christ on a bike, do you overreact to everything?

Sorry but showing him around villa park while fans are on a stadium tour is a bit dumb