The_Steve Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Is it me or does that look over from that pic Not conclusive enough to say the whole ball was over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 So lets give the referee the benefit of the doubt and/or accept it was a minor incident given that the final score was 5-1, mmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 Is it me or does that look over from that pic Not conclusive enough to say the whole ball was over the line. Not conclusive, I know. It would be if the ball was on the ground, but it's probably still in mid-air - and if you compare the position of the ball to the upright of the goalpost, you maybe think again. Needs a camera looking down from the crossbar, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 That ball is nowhere near over the line in those pictures. Its above the line. The angle of the shot creates an illusion but if there was any doubt the ref should not have awarded the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yeah to be fair it is the angle of the picture that makes it look more over than it is. I don't think it's over. However, it's a lot closer than you'd think given the uproar over it. You can't really have a go at the ref for that, especially given the amount of bodies in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well gioven it was 1-0, and not conclusive, and in doubt, and the linesman was not giving it(?) I certainly think you can have the ref for not giving it. However, the Cech decision is spot on, he didn't deny a clear goalscoring opportunity, they scored from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2012 You can't really have a go at the ref for that, especially given the amount of bodies in there. Of course you can. You only give it if you're sure. The default decision is 'no goal'. His default decision was 'yes'. And it was 1-0 at the time, and Spurs scored a few minutes afterwards. Those saying it's minor because the final score was 5-1 are - well I don't know if they're being serious or whether they're saying it with tongue firmly in cheek because that logic simply doesn't fly. At 1-1 it's a completely different game. Spurs aren't chasing the game any more and they don't leave gaps at the back. Atkinson is a known Chelsea advocate. Fergie pulled him up on it before and rather than be charged, the FA just made it so that Atkinson didn't ref a United game for 14 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well gioven it was 1-0, and not conclusive, and in doubt, and the linesman was not giving it(?) I certainly think you can have the ref for not giving it. However, the Cech decision is spot on, he didn't deny a clear goalscoring opportunity, they scored from it. Yeah but if like the offside rule you use Phase 1 and Phase 2 of play then technically he did. He denied it for Phase 1, they scored it in Phase 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 You can't really have a go at the ref for that, especially given the amount of bodies in there. Of course you can. You only give it if you're sure. The default decision is 'no goal'. His default decision was 'yes'. And it was 1-0 at the time, and Spurs scored a few minutes afterwards. Those saying it's minor because the final score was 5-1 are - well I don't know if they're being serious or whether they're saying it with tongue firmly in cheek because that logic simply doesn't fly. At 1-1 it's a completely different game. Spurs aren't chasing the game any more and they don't leave gaps at the back. Atkinson is a known Chelsea advocate. Fergie pulled him up on it before and rather than be charged, the FA just made it so that Atkinson didn't ref a United game for 14 months. But what I'm saying is he might have been "sure". That photo proves that angles can make it look different. From where he was he might have been sure that it was over. Doesn't mean he's right. You can say he's made a mistake, obviously he has. But what I mean is it shouldn't be made out to be some ridiculously awful decision when we can see from there that it was really close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2012 You can say he's made a mistake, obviously he has. But what I mean is it shouldn't be made out to be some ridiculously awful decision when we can see from there that it was really close. But it was an awful decision because he simply couldn't have been certain it crossed the line. At best he guessed which makes it a terrible decision to have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think Mata celebration swayed the ref as i think he genuinely thought it was in adn wasnt a half harted appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 You can say he's made a mistake, obviously he has. But what I mean is it shouldn't be made out to be some ridiculously awful decision when we can see from there that it was really close. But it was an awful decision because he simply couldn't have been certain it crossed the line. At best he guessed which makes it a terrible decision to have made. Do you know that? Surely you have to be sure on every decision you make as a ref? I'm not saying it isn't a bad decision. It's a wrong decision. But maybe the ref did "know" it was over the line. Again, that doesn't mean he isn't wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 And is that the default? The ref has to be sure it has crossed the line to give a goal? Or does he have to be sure it hasn't crossed the line to not give a goal? Or is it neither and he has to use his judgement to make a decision on whether it has or not? That's a genuine question by the way. I'd like to know the official rule on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2012 And is that the default? The ref has to be sure it has crossed the line to give a goal? Or does he have to be sure it hasn't crossed the line to not give a goal? It is the default for any decision hence the adage that if you're not sure you can't give it - whether that be a penalty, a goal or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 So by that logic, every wrong decision ever made is an "awful" decision because the ref couldn't have known it was a penalty/handball/offside whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 It shouldn't matter really. Terrys challenge was a clear foul. If the ref/lino got that simple call right, things wouldn't be so messy. I mean, they call those all the time at the slightest provocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2012 Obviously the degree of 'awful' depends on the consequence. It's not 'awful' to give a corner where it should've been a goalkick. It's wrong but shit happens. But giving a goal is not quite on that level. You really have to be sure it's a goal. The flipside to that is that if it had been a goal that he didn't give, there would be much less of a furore. Yes there would be discussion and the talk of video evidence would come up, but the ref would not be getting as much stick because it would have been understandable and it would have been a prudent decision using the logic that if you're not sure you can't give it. But to give it when it isn't one. Well that's probably the very worst decision a referee can give in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Top class analysis by Neville on Sky yet again, very impressed.. doesn't shirk away from the talk of diving either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Neville proving Messi does indeed dive on Sky too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted April 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2012 Top class analysis by Neville on Sky yet again, very impressed.. doesn't shirk away from the talk of diving either. Did he mention how terrible we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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