"Club 12" from Glasgow

[P3te]

Oh absolutely Zatman. They'll piss through the leagues.

not sure why people think this will be the case. they're not going to have their old players - they're going to need to buy new ones that'll be at their level. they won't be able to pay huge money either, because they're broke, new company or not - already there's talk of the newco going into administration

it could be a lot longer than many people think before rangers, in whatever guise, are in the spl again

They'll have the support though. They're such a big club (relatively) that I really can't see them doing anything but bouncing straight back up through the leagues.

If even a tenth of their old fans come to the new club's games, they'll still be a top 10 side by attendance in Scottish football, and that should be enough to ensure sufficiently good players to guarantee at least first division, if not SPL, football at the earliest opportunity

but they'll need all that money to service the huge overheads they've got. the new rangers based club won't piss through the leagues. if anything they'll end up in administration again

[TrentVilla]

So what happens if the vote ends up with 6 yes and 6 no?

[SikhInTrinity]

Can we offer Hutton to Newco Rangers free of charge?

[SikhInTrinity]

No coincidence that two former clubs of AM are absolutely ko'd financially.

[bickster]

So what happens if the vote ends up with 6 yes and 6 no?

Rangers don't get in, it needs to be 8 / 4 for Rangers to get in, they are already **** with 5 confirmed no's

[bickster]

I'm sure everybody on the board at Celtic wants Rangers in the league because they know the Old Firm needs to exist in order for outsiders to be interested in the league. They also know that most Celtic fans wouldnt appreciate them voting "yes" because they are more interested in schadenfreude at the moment to think about it rationally so the board can just keep quiet on the matter until it's clear their vote is purely academic.

It is interesting how the two clubs who this affects the most dont really have any say in the matter isnt it?

Not convinced by that, what generates more cash, a few old firm games or virtually guaranteed CL football every season? Celtic may in fact grow to be unstoppable in the time it takes Rangers to claw their way back.

[Zatman]

not sure why people think this will be the case. they're not going to have their old players - they're going to need to buy new ones that'll be at their level. they won't be able to pay huge money either, because they're broke, new company or not - already there's talk of the newco going into administration

it could be a lot longer than many people think before rangers, in whatever guise, are in the spl again

for example the prestige of a player playing in 1st division to play for a team like Rangers in his career would be too much too turn down

the player wouldn't be playing for rangers though. in a few weeks rangers will not exist

yeah but under a new name will still be Rangers. Fiorentina is still fiorentina after tehy went bust

[Zatman]

No coincidence that two former clubs of AM are absolutely ko'd financially.

it really is a coincidencee. Cant blame him for their financial issues

[villa89]

Yeah, but havent six clubs already declared they are voting no?

Yeah, they are going to lose the vote if it even goes ahead. Hopefully they disappear and cease to exist but I suspect they will reappear in the scottish Division one...maybe Div 3.

[Zatman]

5 or 6 clubs might have said No but if its a secret ballot anything can happen, hopefully it isnt

[bannedfromHandV]

I don't think anyone wants to see them go out of business altogether but if you do the crime be prepared to do the time.

They should be forced to start up in the 4th tier of scottish football as I'm sure any other club would have to in a similar position.

They've tried to avoid paying tax through using a dividends scheme, I have no sympathy for them as due to the number of people doing this right now the entire country is ****.

[BOF]

not sure why people think this will be the case. they're not going to have their old players - they're going to need to buy new ones that'll be at their level. they won't be able to pay huge money either, because they're broke, new company or not - already there's talk of the newco going into administration

it could be a lot longer than many people think before rangers, in whatever guise, are in the spl again

for example the prestige of a player playing in 1st division to play for a team like Rangers in his career would be too much too turn down

the player wouldn't be playing for rangers though. in a few weeks rangers will not exist

yeah but under a new name will still be Rangers. Fiorentina is still fiorentina after tehy went bust

No they weren't. They had to re-form as FC Florentia Viola. They subsequently regained their original name and I believe were allowed to regain their previous honours. But originally, after the scandal, they were not the same club.

[Eames]

I'm sure everybody on the board at Celtic wants Rangers in the league because they know the Old Firm needs to exist in order for outsiders to be interested in the league. They also know that most Celtic fans wouldnt appreciate them voting "yes" because they are more interested in schadenfreude at the moment to think about it rationally so the board can just keep quiet on the matter until it's clear their vote is purely academic.

It is interesting how the two clubs who this affects the most dont really have any say in the matter isnt it?

Not convinced by that, what generates more cash, a few old firm games or virtually guaranteed CL football every season? Celtic may in fact grow to be unstoppable in the time it takes Rangers to claw their way back.

In the context of Scottish Football presumably.

The crazy thing is that the total deal with ESPN until 2016/17 with Scottish Football is only worth £80m. To contextualise Villa recieved £42m for this season endeavours in the PL.

Celtics CL campaign would have been worth 8m Euros (2.1m for qualifier, 3.9m for group stage, 3 draws @ 400k and 1 win @800k.) So its not worth THAT much to Celtic in the context of 16 home games a season, including 4 guaranteed sell outs against Rangers, plus cup games etc either.

Basically, the sums in Scottish football don't add up at all.

[Zatman]

not sure why people think this will be the case. they're not going to have their old players - they're going to need to buy new ones that'll be at their level. they won't be able to pay huge money either, because they're broke, new company or not - already there's talk of the newco going into administration

it could be a lot longer than many people think before rangers, in whatever guise, are in the spl again

for example the prestige of a player playing in 1st division to play for a team like Rangers in his career would be too much too turn down

the player wouldn't be playing for rangers though. in a few weeks rangers will not exist

yeah but under a new name will still be Rangers. Fiorentina is still fiorentina after tehy went bust

No they weren't. They had to re-form as FC Florentia Viola. They subsequently regained their original name and I believe were allowed to regain their previous honours. But originally, after the scandal, they were not the same club.

i know that but to fans, players and media they were still Fiorentina just different name, would be same for Rangers

[BOF]

Yeah true, I thought you were saying Fiorentina were the same entity.

[villa89]

BBC Sport

Rangers newco: Plans for club to enter Scottish Division One

BBC Scotland has learned of plans being put in place that would allow Rangers to move directly into Scottish Division One in the coming season.

Rangers FC plc is soon to be liquidated and Charles Green's consortium are reforming the club.

But Green's Rangers newco has not gained support to replace the old club in the Scottish Premier League.

And senior Scottish football figures are proposing that Rangers start season 2012-13 in the second tier.

There are also plans for the SPL and Scottish Football League bodies to be merged into a new organisation called 'The Scottish Professional Football League' in 12 months' time.

The main points of the proposals are:

•Rangers are to be relegated with immediate effect and replaced in the SPL by Dundee.

•Television rights for Rangers matches in Scottish Football League Division One are to be bought by the SPL for £1m.

•The SPL and SFL will merge into one body at the start of season 2013-14.

•Play-offs between the top two divisions will be introduced in time for the coming season with one team from the top flight and three from the second tier competing for a place in the following season's SPL.

•There will be an increase in the parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the SPL.

•Changes will be made to the distribution model for clubs in the top two tiers with teams in the lower leagues earning a similar amount to the current set-up.

•A new pyramid system will become effective from season 2014-15 that will allow a potential place in the new league format for a team from either the Highland league or newly-created 'Lowland League'.

•Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the pervious club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge.

Green's group bought Rangers FC plc's assets to relaunch the club

It is understood Rangers chief executive Green has been "briefed" by Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie on the plans to gain their approval.

All changes have to be approved by SPL and SFL clubs over the next few days. The plans require the support of eight SPL clubs and a majority of SFL clubs to be passed.

Should the proposals not gain support, it remains possible that Rangers could begin next season in Scottish Division Three, the lowest league in the senior set-up.

Division One clubs Falkirk, Raith Rovers and latterly Morton have voiced their opposition to any plans to place the Rangers newco in the second tier.

With no Rangers currently in the SPL, 'Club 12' is listed on the league's fixtures for season 2012-13 and Dunfermline, who were relegated from the top flight last season, expect to be reinstated.

Dundee, who finished second to promoted Division One champions Ross County last season, have not gone public with their view on who should take the place of Club 12.

And as expected Rangers just drop into Division 1. What a joke.

[BOF]

It's becoming more and more like the Florentia Viola thing by the day. Different forces at play. The clubs want Club 12 to 'do their time' while the SFA want to make that time as easy as possible. They want Club 12 back in the money league; sorry the SPL; as fast as they can.

[villa89]

It's becoming more and more like the Florentia Viola thing by the day. Different forces at play. The clubs want Club 12 to 'do their time' while the SFA want to make that time as easy as possible. They want Club 12 back in the money league; sorry the SPL; as fast as they can.

Yep, its playing out as expected. Rangers have to spend a year in division 1 as a token punishment and then before people know it they are back in the SPL and its like they never did anything wrong.

[Chindie]

I don't think anyone wants to see them go out of business altogether

I do.

And Celtic.

[LondonLax]

It's becoming more and more like the Florentia Viola thing by the day. Different forces at play. The clubs want Club 12 to 'do their time' while the SFA want to make that time as easy as possible. They want Club 12 back in the money league; sorry the SPL; as fast as they can.

Yep, its playing out as expected. Rangers have to spend a year in division 1 as a token punishment and then before people know it they are back in the SPL and its like they never did anything wrong.

It is probably the best result for all parties.