Stevo985 Posted December 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yeah. Iw as pointing out it's kind of the opposite of our first season with him (assuming he does pick up in the second half of the season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The football world has moved on and O'Neill hasn't. Maybe he just misses JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 They still have MON's usual March slump to come too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The football world has moved on and O'Neill hasn't. Maybe he just misses JR. I miss Larry Hagman too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2012 His first season with us we had the longest undefeated run in the football league Did we? I know we went 11 league games without a win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 3, 2012 Start of the season. I'm fairly sure we were the last team in the football league left undefeated. Maybe I'm mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2012 It was a genuine question mate, I don't know either way. I'm fairly certain on my stat regarding the winless run. My take on O'Neill is that when he arrives at a club he gives players a lift, he gets under their skin and he gets them playing better than they were and in some cases better than they have ever done. As a motivator few are better. You can't polish a turd though and sooner or later telling people they are better than they are stops working when they themselves realise they aren't. That is what happened to us in his first season and it is what has happened to Sunderland now, it is just that because he started their towards the end of last season they've hit the wall this season. In my view O'Neill isn't much of a coach, he doesn't really develop or improve players greatly. While Robertson clearly improved Ashley Young and Milner that was as much about their own personal drive ambition and hard work as it was the management team. Certain players at Sunderland raised their games to levels of performances and consistency that they've never managed previously and will probably never manage again. That is the O'Neill effect but its temporary. When it wears off he needs money and plenty of it to improve a side by buying slightly better players and trying to do exactly the same with them. We saw this time and time again with him. At Sunderland he has only added Fletcher, Johnson an Ceullar the rest of the players are those he inherited and they've pretty much returned to the level of performances they were producing when Bruce got the boot. The final piece of the O'Neill jigsaw is his immensely limited tactics. When teams sit back to protect what they have his teams are utterly utterly clueless and rarely posses the ability to break a team down unless they aren't capable of defending the set piece bombardment when the big guys come up from the back. If a team doesn't come out to attack then O'Neill's sides, set up to counter attack, have nothing. What is happening at Sunderland is exactly the same that happened at Villa in his first season. If he is given lots of cash to spend in January and the summer then he will improve them, perhaps a lot, but it won't last and it will come at great expense. Sooner or later it will all come crashing down and he will quit leaving behind him a mess, reputation probably in tact while Sunderland try to work out to what to do with a bloated, ageing and over paid squad. Same shit, different day with O'Neill. He is a one dimensional, Mr Motivator, Jack in Box who when he is done shouting and spending money doesn't really have all that much to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 3, 2012 I agree with all of that there Trent. Weirdly, when Norwich were 2-0 up yesterday they didn't just sit back and force Sunderland to try and break them down. They just kept going for it and trying to score goals, and credit to them for doing that, but that was the main reason why Sunderland nearly got back into the game and gave their fans a glimmer of hope from their performance. Though, you just know their next home game they will be sitting deep waiting to hit on the counter. MON's "tactics" are pretty poor when the onus is on them to attack, which is why he will never be a top manager as he's just too limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 It was a genuine question mate, I don't know either way. I'm fairly certain on my stat regarding the winless run. My take on O'Neill is that when he arrives at a club he gives players a lift, he gets under their skin and he gets them playing better than they were and in some cases better than they have ever done. As a motivator few are better. You can't polish a turd though and sooner or later telling people they are better than they are stops working when they themselves realise they aren't. That is what happened to us in his first season and it is what has happened to Sunderland now, it is just that because he started their towards the end of last season they've hit the wall this season. In my view O'Neill isn't much of a coach, he doesn't really develop or improve players greatly. While Robertson clearly improved Ashley Young and Milner that was as much about their own personal drive ambition and hard work as it was the management team. Certain players at Sunderland raised their games to levels of performances and consistency that they've never managed previously and will probably never manage again. That is the O'Neill effect but its temporary. When it wears off he needs money and plenty of it to improve a side by buying slightly better players and trying to do exactly the same with them. We saw this time and time again with him. At Sunderland he has only added Fletcher, Johnson an Ceullar the rest of the players are those he inherited and they've pretty much returned to the level of performances they were producing when Bruce got the boot. The final piece of the O'Neill jigsaw is his immensely limited tactics. When teams sit back to protect what they have his teams are utterly utterly clueless and rarely posses the ability to break a team down unless they aren't capable of defending the set piece bombardment when the big guys come up from the back. If a team doesn't come out to attack then O'Neill's sides, set up to counter attack, have nothing. What is happening at Sunderland is exactly the same that happened at Villa in his first season. If he is given lots of cash to spend in January and the summer then he will improve them, perhaps a lot, but it won't last and it will come at great expense. Sooner or later it will all come crashing down and he will quit leaving behind him a mess, reputation probably in tact while Sunderland try to work out to what to do with a bloated, ageing and over paid squad. Same shit, different day with O'Neill. He is a one dimensional, Mr Motivator, Jack in Box who when he is done shouting and spending money doesn't really have all that much to offer. Spot on. Media are not so keen at spunking their load over him these days either. Not much reporting about how limited they are currently as well, media only like a winning O'Neill team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 It was a genuine question mate, I don't know either way. I'm fairly certain on my stat regarding the winless run. My take on O'Neill is that when he arrives at a club he gives players a lift, he gets under their skin and he gets them playing better than they were and in some cases better than they have ever done. As a motivator few are better. You can't polish a turd though and sooner or later telling people they are better than they are stops working when they themselves realise they aren't. That is what happened to us in his first season and it is what has happened to Sunderland now, it is just that because he started their towards the end of last season they've hit the wall this season. In my view O'Neill isn't much of a coach, he doesn't really develop or improve players greatly. While Robertson clearly improved Ashley Young and Milner that was as much about their own personal drive ambition and hard work as it was the management team. Certain players at Sunderland raised their games to levels of performances and consistency that they've never managed previously and will probably never manage again. That is the O'Neill effect but its temporary. When it wears off he needs money and plenty of it to improve a side by buying slightly better players and trying to do exactly the same with them. We saw this time and time again with him. At Sunderland he has only added Fletcher, Johnson an Ceullar the rest of the players are those he inherited and they've pretty much returned to the level of performances they were producing when Bruce got the boot. The final piece of the O'Neill jigsaw is his immensely limited tactics. When teams sit back to protect what they have his teams are utterly utterly clueless and rarely posses the ability to break a team down unless they aren't capable of defending the set piece bombardment when the big guys come up from the back. If a team doesn't come out to attack then O'Neill's sides, set up to counter attack, have nothing. What is happening at Sunderland is exactly the same that happened at Villa in his first season. If he is given lots of cash to spend in January and the summer then he will improve them, perhaps a lot, but it won't last and it will come at great expense. Sooner or later it will all come crashing down and he will quit leaving behind him a mess, reputation probably in tact while Sunderland try to work out to what to do with a bloated, ageing and over paid squad. Same shit, different day with O'Neill. He is a one dimensional, Mr Motivator, Jack in Box who when he is done shouting and spending money doesn't really have all that much to offer. A good summary of MON's management style/ability. I can't believe that there are still people who actually believe he is a good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Don't forget he has a lot of fans in the media, the BBC included (and probably chief asskissers too). Much of this is from a long time ago though, he came across as an eccentric character at Leicester and that developed into his Celtic days and his time as a BBC pundit. I personally thought for all the hype and reputation they'd built for him, we should have acheived a lot more than we did, all down to those traits included in TrentVilla's excellent description above, but also because the man is not as good a manager as some would believe; he's immensely limited and stuck in a footballing timewarp from the early 2000's when you could play a flat 4-4-2 with simple wing play on the counter attack and a percentage game with crosses into the box. Football had evolved, now you need a whole range of tactics and tactics that don't play into the hands of your opponent. The Villa job will be the biggest job he'll ever have, and he was a disappointing failure. I'm not surprised things are going arse about face at Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What are Sunderland fans saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark8691 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 What are Sunderland fans saying? Ouch like. Well, the Sunderland Readytogo forum is beginning to remind me of Villatalk of several years ago. Lots of infighting between posters who still believe the greatness of MON and those who are beginning to think differently due to conflicting evidence! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 What are Sunderland fans saying? Haway man, Sunlun is nee gannin oot Premier League, reet? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2012 Yeah the myth of Martin burns bright with some Mackams, increasingly though the number realising there isn't much substance to his jumping jack management and are really starting to question him. A few more defeats and things could start to get ugly up there, the one thing in his favour is a lot of them seem to have the attitude of 'who can we get better'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I don't think MON is a bad manger, he's just not that good either. In the transfer market all managers make mistake sometimes, he made more than his fair fair imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2012 He isn't a bad manager, just an extremely limited and increasingly out of date one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 A good summary of MON's management style/ability. I can't believe that there are still people who actually believe he is a good manager. He has his strengths, come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2012 He has his strengths, come on. Have you read what I posted? I said what his strengths were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Have you read what I posted? I said what his strengths were. I was responding to pacbuddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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