Brumerican Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 #343 Nice one, Trigger! JailB8. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Steve Messham says that the person who raped him was not Alastair McAlpine and apologises to him - but says After seeing a picture in the past hour of the individual concerned, this [is] not the person I identified by photograph presented to me by the police in the early 1990s, who told me the man in the photograph was Lord McAlpine Which has led to queries about whether it was one of the other McAlpines, who lived locally. Meanwhile, McAlpine sues the Beeb, though they didn't name him, and Newsnight investigations are suspended: Sunder Katwala @sundersays BBC: immediate pause in all newsnight investigations; suspension of all BBC coproductions with Bureau of Investigative Journalism ...while 36 people have come forward with claims of abuse in North Wales homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Couple of great articles there, i do fear that this will all be swept under the carpet to some extent with some choice individuals who are already publicly known being left to hang, while other culprits stay anonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2012 There's an extremely strong whiff in the air methinks. Now I'm perfectly able to believe the BBC buggered up by not showing Mr Measham a photograph of McAlpine in their haste to get a story out about a cover up in the Tory Party over a pedophile, the story must have been manna from heaven in the current climate and corners probably were cut. Yep I can see all that but there are at least two huge "wtf? You can't be serious" alarm bells ringing here 1) Steve Measham claims he was abused by Lord McAlpine 15 years ago because the police showed him one photo and told him that photo was of Lord McAlpine, only it wasn't. Since that day, he hasn't once googled the words Lord McAlpine, he hasn't watched a single news story with him in and lets be honest it wasn't even that long ago with Azil Nadir and Polly Peck being in the news (about a month) and thought hold on, that's not the bloke that abused me. Like shite thats the truth. 2) Mr Entwistle as Editor in Chief claims that the Newsnight / Mcalpine story never came to him for approval. Right so I'm fairly confident that what he says up to a point is true, there are mechanisms in place blah de blah that only certain stories get to the very top for approval etc. Yep thats all credible but, with all the current furore about Newsnight over the Savile case and given that the programme is creating the biggest news story of the day by outing a major political figure as a paedophile I cannot believe for one second that no-one in that chain thought for one minute that the story shouldn't have gone to the very top for approval. Like shite that's the truth as well. I also don't believe that Mr Entwhistle or someone very close to him didn't read the Guardian in the morning either. People are seriously expected to believe that no-one at the top of the BBC or that staff that work there, read the Guardian that morning. It's absolutely hilarious that we are expected to believe that I'm sure I have other nagging doubts about this whole thing too, lots of things really don't add up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2012 Well that's a swift response to point 2. Tells a pack of lies in the morning resigns in the evening. Really, the more I or anyone with half a braincell thought about what he was saying this morning just knew it was a pack of lies. If it wasn't a pack of lies then he really did need to go as clearly the ship was adrift in the fog, rudderless with a pissed captain approaching an iceberg field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 the ship was adrift in the fog, rudderless with a pissed captain approaching an iceberg field. Someone should make a movie out of that. Sounds like a cracking story.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 There are several really interesting things about this. Well, I find them interesting, but perhaps I should get out more. The Beeb is caving in too readily and too cravenly to political pressure. The rot set in some years ago, when child murdering war criminal Blair and his desperate, amoral gofer Campbell bullied them into backing down on a good story on the treatment of Dr Kelly, and the whole pack of lies about WMD, 45 minutes, and the rest of the bullshit. Since then, the forelock-tugging to cretins temporarily occupying political positions has become entrenched. And we have all suffered as a result. The focus a week ago was on the Beeb, with tory politicians nudging towards saying it should be broken up, in the hope of being thrown a few shekels by Rupert, like their much-hated former colleague the Menschkin. Then it turned to the tory party itself: shock, horror. No more thought of making the institution pay for the failings of its members - all was quiet. Now the Beeb has **** up in a matter of basic journalism, and so no apology can be base enough, no reparation will suffice, the very foundations of Broadcasting House must be torn up and the fields sowed with salt. It's utter nonsense, hypocritical bollocks from idiots with no sense of perspective, no moral compass, no idea of proportionality and culpability. It doesn't help that toryboy Patten has held out the hemlock to the wretched Entwhistle (probably the wrong appointment in the first place, but hardly his fault). Who in the Beeb will have faith in their "leaders" and managers for some years to come, after this? Newsnight and the bureau of investigative journalism (a small group with an excellent track record, by the way) are criticised for letting it be known that Alastair McAlpine was the person (wrongly) rumoured to be involved. Well, they didn't name him. Though Scallywag magazine did, a decade ago. And it's been out there all that time. The confusion arises because the police told Messham that the person he identified was Lord McAlpine (and another person abused, or rather his widow, testifies the same thing, by the way). Yet the people at fault in this are the ones who didn't name him, not those who did? I think I just entered a parallel universe, one devoid of logic. And among all this hysteria, the press and radio journos baying for soundbites, another three dozen people have reported that they were sexually abused as minors in the "care homes" in north Wales. And the guilty men, the people in high places, the masons, the serial abusers and rapers of children, throw a little more dirt on the graves of the "suicides", a little more stardust in the eyes of the press, and carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Here's an interesting thing about Stephen Messham, who claims he was serially raped by groups including the high and mighty while in the "care" of Clywyd County Council. He was charged with false accounting, claiming benefits he wasn't entitled to, and fraud. On that basis, some interwebby peeps said we should treat his stories with great caution. Oh, but he was acquitted of those charges. But the police were granted 42 days to prepare a defence against him (you'd think they'd done that already, having brought charges), they applied for costs (!), and they failed to return to him his computer, personal papers, and house keys. And this was after the court found in his favour. Imagine if the case had gone against him. Presumably they could have sold his organs for medical experiments. Don't challenge your elders and betters. It won't go well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 You can have all the conspiracy theories you like, there was a mad basic flaw in this whole thing. For years the victim thought the perp was McAlpine, but never ever thought to seek out a picture to match the name. Perhaps that's understandable, perhaps I wouldn't want to see a picture of my abuser. Similarly, the journalists were happy to run with the story because, in essence, it was all already 'known' to anyone that cared to research beyond item one of a google search. But they didn't think. or were too sensitive to put a picture on the table and 'this guy?'. Newsnight were in a tail spin because they got all out of focus on what, when and where they should publish. Something utterly basic went wrong here, and if any of us had been the falsely accused we'd now be looking to bring down anything and everything we could. Bad times for the beeb, they need to get a grip quick, show some backbone and prove they can actually organise a piss up in a brewery because there are wolves out there waiting to pull them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Anyone seen the new Kingsmill ad? Bit edgy in the current climate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 She'd get it though....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 She'd get it though....... Yeah, I'd bung her over a large flowerpot in Maltese party town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Patten has held out the hemlock to the wretched Entwhistle (probably the wrong appointment in the first place, but hardly his fault). Who in the Beeb will have faith in their "leaders" and managers for some years to come, after this? Well they seem to be dropping like flies now, although interesting to note that after 50 odd days in post before resigning Mr Entwhistle has walked away with a severance package of one year's salary, or £450,000. Of public money. For failure. This from an organisation that relentlessly bashes i) the corporate bonus culture, and ii) bonuses that reward failure. Not much hypocrisy there, eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm begining to worry that a rather important debate about and inquiry into a rather disgusting underbelly is being swept aside by this BBC bashing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm begining to worry that a rather important debate about and inquiry into a rather disgusting underbelly is being swept aside by this BBC bashing. That is most certainly true, not only that its pretty disgusting how there's a few McAlpines been quoted not and they keep going on about clearing the family name, when in fact it appears to be cousin Jimmy McAlpine who did the abusing. He after all lived in the requisite big house in the area, had lots of cars, even had a penchant for "young chauffeurs". I'll also wager that Lord McAlpine has been to Wrexham more than once in his life too given that his cousins estate was nearby, his cousin that used to run the McAlpine empire, its a whole 2 miles from Wrexham The BBC **** up, quite spectacularly and it does need to be sorted out. But whilst the muckraking press harp on about journalistic standards, just remember every single breath from most of them is hypocrissy, rarely does a day go by in their rags where journalistic standards aren't dropped in pursuit of a story. Ever wondered how many of them knew about Jimmy Savile and never outed him whilst he was alive? I suspect the answer is most of them. This outcry is all agenda based, they know they'll get a good kicking from Leveson so they are trying to even it up beforehand by trying to drag down one of the few organisations that really did have decent standards in the main . Oh and lets not forget Murdoch has been jealous and waging war against the BBC for decades now. Funny isn't it how most newspapers at the weekend seem to have lost sight of the real story (Kudos to the Indie on Sunday for being an exception) jumping right in on the Beeb bashing and forgetting the most important aspect of the North Wales story.. the abused and the abusers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 You can have all the conspiracy theories you like, there was a mad basic flaw in this whole thing. For years the victim thought the perp was McAlpine, but never ever thought to seek out a picture to match the name. Perhaps that's understandable, perhaps I wouldn't want to see a picture of my abuser. Similarly, the journalists were happy to run with the story because, in essence, it was all already 'known' to anyone that cared to research beyond item one of a google search. But they didn't think. or were too sensitive to put a picture on the table and 'this guy?'. Newsnight were in a tail spin because they got all out of focus on what, when and where they should publish. Something utterly basic went wrong here, and if any of us had been the falsely accused we'd now be looking to bring down anything and everything we could. Bad times for the beeb, they need to get a grip quick, show some backbone and prove they can actually organise a piss up in a brewery because there are wolves out there waiting to pull them down. Messham's account is that he was shown a photo, identified it as one of his abusers, and was told by police that the person was Lord McAlpine. Another person apparently had the same experience. It is unclear why the police didn't do anything about this. The identification failure was the journos at the BBC and TBIJ. They should have made sure there was a positive id of the person concerned, even if they were not going to name him. It is now said that it was a Lord McAlpine, the cousin of the one still living. That would fit with what Messham told the previous inquiry, that he understood the man was now dead. There was a basic journalistic failure. The consequence was that internet rumours which have been around for many years were circulated faster and more widely, with reputational damage to McAlpine. He has the right to clarification, an apology, and damages if he can establish against whom. The witch-hunt against the BBC, led by the same people who are so cavalier about making up deliberate lies every day, is wholly disproportionate and wrong. It must be resisted. Meanwhile, people need to get their attention back on the real problem, which is the cover-up of years of systematic abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Channel 4 journo: Ciaran Jenkins @C4Ciaran Expecting developments on child abuse allegations against former Rochdale MP Cyril Smith and claims of a police cover up. Ciaran Jenkins @C4Ciaran Correction: Promise of "seismic" child abuse story from @markwatts_1 inv several "senior ex-Tory ministers", but "separate" from north Wales (Watts clarified he doesn't mean ex-tory, but rather ex-minister). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2012 ...The witch-hunt against the BBC, led by the same people who are so cavalier about making up deliberate lies every day, is wholly disproportionate and wrong. It must be resisted.... Well yes, and at the same time - No. Yes the witch hunt by the likes of the Mail and Sun should be condemned or exposed for what it is - self interested bashing of a competitor, based on a different set of standards than those to which they judge themselves. But, and it's a big BUT - the BBC middle and upper management is an absolute disgrace. Not just over this and the Saville thing, but in general. It's populated by beurocratic nobodies, scared to make a decision, lacking any experience of anything but getting salaries for being pathetic non-deciders. The BBC is bloated with nomarks once you get away from the actual technicians, journalists, film-makers, writers, editors and so on. Smug, self satisifed, useless. The bloke now, temporarily in charge is a marketing bloke, one of the clowns who wanted to shut down 6Music, and got his arse kicked as a result. There seems to be some sort of feud between some of the news journalists and their managers. It really needs to sort its act out, but I fear that there is no one of sufficent ability to actually do it. And if it doesn't, then it's doomed, because with the tories and their media mates on the warpath, it's not in a happy position. They've (the tories and murdoch and the mail etc) been caught with their pants down in the past, and now they want to lay into the beeb for ideological and self interested reasons, not for the good of an organisation that is still one of the best programme makers in the world. The whole thing's a mess, and that's without the serious, but seperate issue of what seems to be a covered up systemic abuse of poor children and vulnerable individuals within various branches of "the establishment" mostly outside the bbc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes, there's clearly a culture clash within the Beeb, and the journos and programme makers seem to be feeling stymied by the bosses. Similar things happen in the NHS and universities. It's been there for some time, but I'm sure the Hutton Inquiry made it worse, and made the Beeb far more cautious than it should be, with the bosses frightened of upsetting the government of the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Channel 4 journo: Ciaran Jenkins @C4Ciaran Expecting developments on child abuse allegations against former Rochdale MP Cyril Smith and claims of a police cover up. Ciaran Jenkins @C4Ciaran Correction: Promise of "seismic" child abuse story from @markwatts_1 inv several "senior ex-Tory ministers", but "separate" from north Wales (Watts clarified he doesn't mean ex-tory, but rather ex-minister). Strange that nothing has yet been revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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