drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 i don't usually support death penalty, but for paedophiles i think it should be exception. they add nothing to society and should be treated like garbage like they are. I saw the schofield incident and although not a big fan of this goevrnement I thought Cameron handled it well. You can't see the names on the list, its just storm in a teacup Handled it well? - Not all - his basically implied that Gay people are Paedo's - it was a shocking statement from Cameron. All his "good work" in not reading the list was completely undone by his ignorant statement - terrible actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Humphries absolutely savaged Yvette Cooper about the "scandal" this morning on R4. No he didn't at all. Humphries was trying to be his Paxman style, he asked various questions but said nothing. It was a poor interview all round which achieved nothing for the debate from any side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Handled it well? - Not all - his basically implied that Gay people are Paedo's - it was a shocking statement from Cameron. All his "good work" in not reading the list was completely undone by his ignorant statement - terrible actions Totally wrong. And to infer that in anyway shape or form is pretty disgusting drat. You may not like the bloke or agree with his politics, but try to oppose him with a bit of class. Poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Totally wrong. And to infer that in anyway shape or form is pretty disgusting drat. You may not like the bloke or agree with his politics, but try to oppose him with a bit of class. Poor. How can you say that is totally wrong when his words were "There is a danger, if we're not careful, that this could turn into a sort of witch-hunt, particularly against people who are gay and I'm worried about the sort of thing you are doing right now - giving me a list of names that you've taken off the internet." That is complete and utter scandalous statement from Cameron as well you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The internet is 90% porn and 10% bullshit. It is best not to take anything you see on here seriousy. Well maybe the porn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 How can you say that is totally wrong when his words were That is complete and utter scandalous statement from Cameron as well you know. Not really. And given the lack of any agreement from any opposition politician with your somewhat clouded point of view, I would suggest that it is indeed you who are misguided here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 What the hell are you uttering on about now Eames. Frankly a "defense" of bigoted views as shown by Cameron yesterday is something I never thought I would see on VT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2012 The internet is 90% porn and 10% bullshit. It is best not to take anything you see on here seriousy. Well maybe the porn... There is a venn diagram where those 2 circles merge at some small point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 What the hell are you uttering on about now Eames. Frankly a "defense" of bigoted views as shown by Cameron yesterday is something I never thought I would see on VT Right. Once again you are only seeing what you want to see and whats actually written so lets make this easy. 1. People on "the list" are gay 2. Cameron - misguidedly perhaps raises this as a possible problem. eg. Some people on the list are gay - could a be an unfortunate bi-product of the internet speculation about alleged abuse. 3. Cameron says what he has thought in point 2. At no point does Cameron say "Gay people are paedo's or even SOME gay people are paedo's -despite what you appear to have read. Its quite simple really. No bigotry (where you got that from I will never know - and actually I'm not interested) no homophobia, or any other exuse to prattle like you usually do that some/all Tories are whatever insult you are choosing this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Eames - how do you know people on the list are gay? - What has being gay got to do with the subject matter, ie child abuse? - Has there been a very ignorant view out there that has linked the two in the past? - Had being gay actually been mentioned prior to the mistake from Cameron? - Should Cameron have mentioned homosexuality? If you actually read what I had said I pointed out that Cameron had made a mistake, either through ignorance or stupidity, but that is a Pandora's box comment and one that as the head of teh Gvmt he should never have made By him uttering that in the way he did, he has linked Gay and Paedo which is completely and utterly wrong. It was a big mistake, one that he should never have made. You are making some pretty big statements on what I have supposedly said there, totally out of order IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Eames - how do you know people on the list are gay? - What has being gay got to do with the subject matter, ie child abuse? - Has there been a very ignorant view out there that has linked the two in the past? - Had being gay actually been mentioned prior to the mistake from Cameron? - Should Cameron have mentioned homosexuality? If you actually read what I had said I pointed out that Cameron had made a mistake, either through ignorance or stupidity, but that is a Pandora's box comment and one that as the head of teh Gvmt he should never have made By him uttering that in the way he did, he has linked Gay and Paedo which is completely and utterly wrong. It was a big mistake, one that he should never have made. You are making some pretty big statements on what I have supposedly said there, totally out of order IMO. This isn't one we are going to sort out. You've said your bit, I've said mine. I'm going to leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Eames - how do you know people on the list are gay? - What has being gay got to do with the subject matter, ie child abuse? - Has there been a very ignorant view out there that has linked the two in the past? - Had being gay actually been mentioned prior to the mistake from Cameron? - Should Cameron have mentioned homosexuality? People on the list were said to be senior tories against whom allegations had been made on the internet. When it was handed over, Cameron had been discussing North Wales boys homes, which would explain the connection with referring to gay people. The start of the discussion had been about paedophile rings and the British elite more generally, cover-ups and the possible involvement of someone from no10, which isn't limited to boys homes. You can easily see why Cameron made the remark, and it doesn't to me demonstrate either that he does or he doesn't think that paedophilia and being gay tend to go together. The link people sometimes make is speaking of gay people as they are paedophiles, while also being able to understand that paedophiles aren't only gay. It's a strange one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2012 It's also worth saying that a few of the rumoured names relating to politicians and paedophilia are either openly gay or long suspected of it, and I would posit that a few of the rumours are based on little more than a politician being gay - Cameron is simply warning against both an hysteria of suspicion of homosexual political figures, and also against this idea that gay men are somehow more likely to be paedophiles, which has been around for donkey years and never seems to have particularly gone away, always rearing it's head when any 'paedo scandal' crops up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villamark Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 This isn't one we are going to sort out. You've said your bit, I've said mine. I'm going to leave it there. Peter Thatchall defended Cameron on 5 live this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Chindie/Peterms. I bow to your greater eloquence. (we used to have a smiley for it but it appears to have been thrown out in the move) Peter Thatchall defended Cameron on 5 live this morning. **** hell. What is going on now then? Is this a Tory love-in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 It's also worth saying that a few of the rumoured names relating to politicians and paedophilia are either openly gay or long suspected of it, and I would posit that a few of the rumours are based on little more than a politician being gay - Cameron is simply warning against both an hysteria of suspicion of homosexual political figures, and also against this idea that gay men are somehow more likely to paedophiles, which has been around for donkey years and never seems to have particularly gone away, always rearing it's head when any 'paedo scandal' crops up. Isn't that the point? Being Gay or being Paedo are not the same thing. There have been long held prejudices that we are seemingly getting away from with homosexuality. Being a peadophile is a repugnant thing that (rightly) will never be accepted as part of society. Both have been subject to witch hunts in the past, as have other long held views such as racism etc etc. The problem occurs though when there is some linkeage inferred intentionally or not that things like Homosexuality and Pedophilia are linked in some way. Typically that leads to the ignorance and items like Cameron mentioned of witch hunts etc. Typically that is why people of influence, intellect and power would never state anything that would link these or would even bring that subject up as all it typically does it give fuel for the bigoted views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2012 Isn't that the point? Being Gay or being Paedo are not the same thing. There have been long held prejudices that we are seemingly getting away from with homosexuality. Being a peadophile is a repugnant thing that (rightly) will never be accepted as part of society. Both have been subject to witch hunts in the past, as have other long held views such as racism etc etc. The problem occurs though when there is some linkeage inferred intentionally or not that things like Homosexuality and Pedophilia are linked in some way. Typically that leads to the ignorance and items like Cameron mentioned of witch hunts etc. Typically that is why people of influence, intellect and power would never state anything that would link these or would even bring that subject up as all it typically does it give fuel for the bigoted views I would argue that there is an underlying 'Gay politician = paedo' theme growing in the rumours related to this scandal, and I'm sure Cameron was aware of it too. he will be aware of the rumours and, having been dropped in this situation by Schofield, tried to nip the wrongheaded and distasteful association in the bud. He was right to do so, as would anyone else who chose to shed light on such a belief. I don't see how he can do so without mentioning the idiotic link, making it a taboo subject to bring up certainly doesn't help. You're really reaching for this Drat and I don't think many are buying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 It's also worth saying that a few of the rumoured names relating to politicians and paedophilia are either openly gay or long suspected of it, and I would posit that a few of the rumours are based on little more than a politician being gay - Cameron is simply warning against both an hysteria of suspicion of homosexual political figures, and also against this idea that gay men are somehow more likely to be paedophiles, which has been around for donkey years and never seems to have particularly gone away, always rearing it's head when any 'paedo scandal' crops up. I've already "liked" this but tbh it's worthy of being quoted imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I would argue that there is an underlying 'Gay politician = paedo' theme growing in the rumours related to this scandal, and I'm sure Cameron was aware of it too. he will be aware of the rumours and, having been dropped in this situation by Schofield, tried to nip the wrongheaded and distasteful association in the bud. He was right to do so, as would anyone else who chose to shed light on such a belief. I don't see how he can do so without mentioning the idiotic link, making it a taboo subject to bring up certainly doesn't help. You're really reaching for this Drat and I don't think many are buying. Taking your last comment first, frankly I don't care. Unlike some on here (and this in not an accusation against you) I don't have this burning desire for the most "like" posts and am more than happy to be a lone voice You are right in the rumours of Gay and Paedo being linked (through ignorance I may add) out there in the rumour heaven that is internetland. What I object very strongly to though is any sort of assumption that in reality the two are linked. That for me is a very dangerous one (and wrong). No fuel, again IMO, should ever be added to that particular fire and that means that people of influence especially have to be very careful to make sure they do not allow it to happen in any way As said i think, and a quick trawl on the thousands of comments on forums such as Twitter agreeing, that Cameron while rightly not reacting to Schofield "list", he should never have mentioned homosexuality in his reply as all it has now done is enabled people to try and make some link between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 As said i think, and a quick trawl on the thousands of comments on forums such as Twitter agreeing, that Cameron while rightly not reacting to Schofield "list", he should never have mentioned homosexuality in his reply as all it has now done is enabled people to try and make some link between the two. never really get this argument .. what about the quick trawl of the many thousands more that don't agree Not saying I don't believe you but could you link to all the thousands of comments please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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