Willy_Evergo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think that quote is very unfair, its biased, any bunch of facts and statistics could be used to make opposite points... For instance, here's another look at McLeish's record... (Please don't castigate me, i'm only writing this to illustrate a point) After a successful playing career, winning a European Cup Winners Cup, Super Cup and three Scottish Premier League titles, Alex McLeish took over at Motherwell in 1994, and led them to an impressive second place in the Scottish Premier League finishing behind Walter Smith's Rangers. After the club failed to build on this, he ressigned and took over at Hibernians. In his first full season he won the Scottish First Division and in 2001 finished in third place in the Premier League and reached a Scotish Cup Final. He then took over at Rangers and won the Premier League in his first full season. Then followed a particularly difficult time when their financial state saw them lose many of their top players. Nevertheless, after making the Bosman free transfers of Jean-Alain Boumsong and Dado Prso he led Rangers to the Premier League title in 2005, edging out Martin O'Neill's Celtic and next season the side qualified for the knockout stages of the Champions League. After leaving Rangers, he became the Scottish National team manager, winning 7 out of 10 games, including an historic 1-0 defeat of France in Paris. He left his position as Scotland manager to take over at Birmingham City, and in his first full season (2008/09) led them to promotion to the English Premier League. By January 2010, he had guided them to a 12-game unbeaten run, a club record in the top division, was named Premier League Manager of the month for December 2009 (the first Birmingham manager to receive the award) and led them to a 9th place finish in the Premier League, their highest in over 50 years. The following season the club won the League Cup. However, due to a number of injuries to key players like Scott Dann and Craig Gardner, the club got caught in a relegation battle, and were relegated on the last day of the season following a defeat to Spurs. Despite Birmingham City saying McLeish would keep his job, he resigned and was appointed as manager to Aston Villa, to oversee a difficult period when the wage bill was being significantly reduced and he was told he would have to sell to buy.... I think you'll agree if you read this version of history it tells a very different story, but all of it is factually correct. Hello Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsub Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Scottie_villa, it good to see that someone else is prepared to look at the facts rather than resort to the unintelligent "he's crap!" view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Lol reading the Pat Shurmur page on Wiki, and it says the following:- While potentially hamstrung in attempts to install a new offensive system by the NFL lockout, the Browns played through the first half of the 2011 season at or near the bottom of the league in almost every offensive category. Starting several rookies, Shurmur's team was frequently beset by confusion in personnel and play-calling at critical junctures. Early in the year the defense surrendered a touchdown on a failure to break the defensive huddle, and the team's chances in several games were compromised by a host of special teams mistakes and meltdowns. At the midpoint of the season, in a telling series in which Shurmur called for a conservative ball-protection strategy, the Browns recovered their own fumble resulting from a mistakenly-called hand off to a 3rd sting tight-end lined up at fullback, only to botch a short go-ahead field goal attempt with a failed snap and uncoordinated line movement. It doesn't sound like they need to share ideas, they already seem to be doing the same things with poor attacks and lots of mistakes. From Wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 or you could just avoid facts and statistics all together and actually watch us play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Black_AVFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 or you could just avoid facts and statistics all together and actually watch us play... ...and once you see us play, you realise the facts do not tell the entire story. I do not know from his time in Scotland. All I can go on is from what I have read from Rangers fans. Most of them were glad to see the back of McLeish due to having to endure what we are now - boring, dull, defensive anti-football. It was only because his squad was marginally better that he managed to win so many trophies in Scotland. At SHA, he took them down playing boring antifootball. They got promoted playing the same way, not to mention, like Rangers, their squad was better than most of the Championship so promotion was expected. He took them to 9th, most of that largely dependant on Joe Hart and having a good central defence in Dann and Johnson throwing their bodies at everything. Then he was found out and look where they ended up - with his team that he had put together. He has come here and teams already know what to expect as they remember his time from SHA. That is why we are struggling. Its not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think the time would have been better spent if he was at Millwall this weekend watching Bolton and prepping for our upcoming game which he simply HAS to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/2xytvc06lukhsvovwjhhug/Show/Stats-Analysis-Differing-Tactics-from-Villas-Boas-Villas-Boss Says it all really One of my main frustrations about AM is how he goes on about how many strikers he plays as evidence of his attacking intent. Point is that just by filling team with strikers doesn't necessarily make for an attacking team. You actually need some midfielders to create the chances too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 What is all this about Eck going to the Browns to "discuss ideas"... I'm sure the Browns finished bottom of the league last season, didn't they? Apart from man-motivation, what possible use can meeting a coach who had an atrocious season in an entirely different sport have to our manager? Hes only meeting with the defensive co-ordinator,no point talking offense while hes there he does not use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Scottie_villa, it good to see that someone else is prepared to look at the facts rather than resort to the unintelligent "he's crap!" view. Pardon? There have been quite a few well argued and clearly well read (and observed) posts on why McLeish is the wrong man for this, or any top flight, club. I think the words "He's crap" are rather suscinct as it happens. I note with interest your lack of any intelligent input aside from expanding slightly on the phrase "this" to have a pop at people you don't agree with. My opinion? He's crap. The reasons have been stated over and over. Ive no idea why he's still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cule4life Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 More to the point how does anyone finish 3rd with Rangers ? Faulkners quote about McLeish working extra hard during the season break is a crop of crap and shows how Amateur he is. Sending him to the browns to get advice off another diabolical manager blows my mind and makes me wonder if any of them Lerner, Eck and Faulkner know anything about football. Britney Spear,s Song "Circus" reminds me iv villa right now its embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 He's still here because he obviously hasn't breached the terms of his contract in any way. You shouldn't expect a manager to get sacked based on his perceived style of football, as that is subjective rather than objective. Whilst the results leave a lot to be desired (in part due to the style of football) things are not yet so bad that he deserves to be sacked. That then leads us onto the expectations of the board when they appointed McLeish, while the club may publically be stating their aim is Europe (and to be fair what else can they say?) how do we know that as far as this season is concerned anything outside of the bottom 3 is not deemed 'acceptable'? Other factors will clearly have an impact, attendances being the most obvious, but even then in the grand scheme of things revenue lost from low(ish) attendances wont be too much of a concern. So he's still here because he hasn't given Lerner a reason to sack him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 He definitely deserves to be sacked. No doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So he's still here because he hasn't given Lerner a reason to sack him yet. I don't know about that only 6 wins in 25 matches worst home form since 1987 (our worst in Premiership history) flirting with relegation dwindling attendances/drop in morale amongst fans continual repetetive mistakes on the pitch which have not been addressed non-entertaining football Certainly appears to be a few reasons to get rid to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Black_AVFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 He definitely deserves to be sacked. No doubt about that. I agree. The appointment was ludicrous in the first place. I cannot fathom the moment when Lerner/Faulkner decided that McLeish was the man they wanted. I can only conclude that they looked at the O'Neil/McLeish rivalry in Scotland and how McLeish one won trophy more than O'Neil whilst in charge of Rangers. O'Neil won trophies in Scotland, got Leicester promoted, won a league cup. McLeish won trophies in Scotland, got SHA promoted, won a league cup. The record, when you look at it like that, is not that dissimilar. But as we know, the reality is far different on a game-to-game basis. I won't hide the fact I am anti-McLeish. My feelings are well documented here. But is the above why Lerner employed him in the first place? I cannot think of any other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/2xytvc06lukhsvovwjhhug/Show/Stats-Analysis-Differing-Tactics-from-Villas-Boas-Villas-Boss Says it all really One of my main frustrations about AM is how he goes on about how many strikers he plays as evidence of his attacking intent. Point is that just by filling team with strikers doesn't necessarily make for an attacking team. You actually need some midfielders to create the chances too! Heskey is supposed to be a striker but last week he put in our best right back performance this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Britney Spear,s Song "Circus" reminds me iv villa right now its embarrassing the state villa are in or that you know the song "circus" ? :winkold: i agree that he hasnt given lerner a reason to sack him, i think it will be very hard to get him out when we are only losing by 1 goal to the best teams in the league and lerner isnt here week in week out i said it at the time as much as it pains me the chelsea result IMO sees him through to the summer it will be interesting when the renews start up and the inevitable phone calls when people dont, if attendences and general interest in the club drops dramtically and genting kick up a fuss then i think we'll see a change, until then absolutely nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 So he's still here because he hasn't given Lerner a reason to sack him yet. I don't know about that only 6 wins in 25 matches worst home form since 1987 (our worst in Premiership history) flirting with relegation dwindling attendances/drop in morale amongst fans continual repetetive mistakes on the pitch which have not been addressed non-entertaining football Certainly appears to be a few reasons to get rid to me!As per the original comment, those seem to be not good enough reasons for Lerner to sack him For you and I those reasons, and no doubt more, are plenty enough for us to dispense with the "services" of the current manager For the person who actually has the authority to make the decision they are not good enough to sack him, merely to send him on a "coaching seminar" to America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So he's still here because he hasn't given Lerner a reason to sack him yet. I don't know about that only 6 wins in 25 matches worst home form since 1987 (our worst in Premiership history) flirting with relegation dwindling attendances/drop in morale amongst fans continual repetetive mistakes on the pitch which have not been addressed non-entertaining football Certainly appears to be a few reasons to get rid to me!As per the original comment, those seem to be not good enough reasons for Lerner to sack him For you and I those reasons, and no doubt more, are plenty enough for us to dispense with the "services" of the current manager For the person who actually has the authority to make the decision they are not good enough to sack him, merely to send him on a "coaching seminar" to America I understand where you are coming from Richard - but those points should be valid to Randy - surely the drop in revenue (by decreasing attendances) alone should be a nudge in the right direction, especially as Randy appears to be hellbent on cost-cutting... I seem to recall Steve Gibson sacking Gareth Southgate for that very reason (admittedly after Boro were relegated) And we are in a results business afterall and our 'results' just are not good enough. A pitiful 3 home wins and 3 away wins to our name - that added to the standard of football we're putting on display is a reason for the drop in numbers and revenue. So what will it take??? Relegation? Talk about shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sadly, that's exactly what I think it would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I agree with you entirely, Randy does not. Another reason for me to believe that at best he is out of touch and at worst he just doesn't give a shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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