The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[Majkee]

AMC is not Mourinho, but everyone must agree that our players do silly errors, which they are repeating over and over. I doubt that AMC with his coaches are not explaining these errors to players.

1. Dunne will do some stupid error every 3 matches in average

2. Warnock will do same errors in every match

3. Hutton is not a football player (AMC's fault, he was naive that he is the same player he known)

4. Cuellar is not a good defender despite 90% of Villa fans claim the opposite, Cuellar will do some stupid error every match (look at huge gaps before both penalties)

[macandally]

I dont even take satisfaction on posting about McLeish anymore. I am fed up with those who are desperate to justify him being manager no matter how poor. I dont care whose fault people argue it is, if you are getting paid millions to manage what effectively is a multination, multi million pound business then effectively, the buck stops with you.

So far, attendances are down, merchandising is down, performances in the main product area are down and the business is stagnating at best.

Question is, what you going to do Randy?

Nobody's justifying him being manager by saying he wasn't at fault for the goals. Really shows up your extremely clouded judgement. To you there are only those who are vitriolically against McLeish no matter what happens, and those who are staunchly pro-McLeish. Which is absolutely ridiculous. For one, I'm sure you remember the poll held on this very site where there were only like 3 people out of 300+ who wanted McLeish to stay. Most of us didn't want him, and would rather he got fired asap, but that doesn't mean that we hurl vitriol at him at any window of opportunity no matter how small or nonexistant.

When I last posted on this thread, I pleaded with those who were "advocating" supporting McLeish to give me some light on the horizon, some reason why I should be swayed. One person tried, Stanthemanisgod, the rest was just foundationless, hopeful meanderings usually by those who think that this is as good as we actually are.

I think we are better and if these players were properly organised and motivated, we would. If they were not, then I would expect the right manager to make the hard decisions that he is paid to do. Houllier did and got ridiculed, now, the club is a joke.

There isn't any 'swaying' needed. Virtually nobody thinks he is the one to manage us, and the majority of Villa fans (I'm talking 90%) feel he should be fired immediately. So your perception of people's opinions is quite perplexing.

So your beef is that I vitriolic against McLeish? My decision making is clouded?

Where am I calling him GC, or that ginger word removed. Enlighten me?

As far as I can see, all of the things I posted are disappointingly true. Do I take delight in that, do I heck.

You accuse me of siezing on any small opportunity to have a go, I would argue that I have plenty of grounds for justifiable cause! It is more the few on here who sieze on results such as Wolves as some sign of footballing enlightenment and a path to Utopia. That is what frustrates me!

That said, this thread is nothing but argumentative and I am certain a number of posters are not that interested in debating the pros and cons of McLeish, but more on refuting anything that their self appointed nemesis says.

[Super-Villan]

If players are repeating errors then it is the responsibility of management to train it out of them or to drop the player in question. That they haven't been able to do that isn't the players fault. And it's not as if the players were repeatedly making the same mistakes under both our previous managers.

(There is such a thing as an individual error, but when these build up and up in number you have to start looking for the culprit higher up the chain.)

[villa89]

Nice of Mcliesh to come out and blast RVP for an elbow in an attempt to distract attention from his sides capitulation from a 2-0 HT lead and the inevitable blame that would come his way. I guess he must be learning something from Fergie...

[picicata]

So is there anyone, one single person who agrees with Alex McLeish that our performance in the first half was, and I quote him directly here "international class".

This from the man who has given us such gems as "Downing won't be sold", "Robbie Keane is at his peak" and "its a myth that I'm defensive".

I would be stunned if there is a single person who watched the match that agrees with him, perhaps now everyone can agree on at least one thing. Alex McLeish is deluded.

Well there are some pretty poor international teams out there, maybe he was referring to one of those?

Two good break away goals shouldn't hide the fact that on the whole our possession, passing and movement was rubbish in both halves of the game. The fact that McCleish thinks we played well in the first half worrys me intensely!

All Arsenal had to do was step it up for 15mins, then sit back and watch our shite footballing team try to create something when their defence play a deep defensive line rather than a high one.

All the bad things happening at the club are not McCleish's fault, but he certainly isn't helping.

[UpTheVilla26]

Did anyone else hear Mcleish say about us lacking 'experience' in our team?

Compare the two line-ups of the teams yesterday. I can guarantee that our starting 11 had more Premiership experience than the Arsenal staring 11.

Given, Dunne, Warnock, Petrov, Bent, Keane & Ireland. All been in around this league for years. Yes, Gardner, Bannan and Clark were on the pitch at the end but that is 3 players. All of whom Mcleish CHOSE to put into that game at some stage.

Let's look at Arsenal - Fabianski, Coquelin, Koscielny, Metersacker, Oxlaide-Chamberlain for a start. Not much Premiership experience there. Not compared to the list of Villa players above.

If I could be bothered then I'd find the appearance stats for every player in both sides yesterday. To be honest though, much like our feeble defence, I can't be bothered.

The sooner this inept, failure leaves the club, along with at least 3 (if not the whole) of that defence then the better.

This is what happens though when a Yank without an ounce of football knowledge rocks up at your club. How any person in a sane state of mind could see this all working out 'for the best' is beyond me.

[villaglint]

Biggest issue all season is obviously our attrocious defending but that might be helped if we kept possession of the ball better. Our passing is so bad it beggars belief - reminds of the O'Leary days.

Yesterday after about ten minutes I said to myself "come on villa lets just put 5 passes together". I started to count and it was one of the most depressing things I could have done because it suddenly became clear exactly how bad we were. In the first half we put five passes together twice, one of which led to the second goal. Most of the time it was 1,2 give it away.

Clark, Petrov, Ireland and Keane are all comfortable on the ball so I am at a loss to explain why it was so difficult to do such basic stuff. Its harsh to blame AM for a player being so inept but ultimately he is responsible for motivating them and getting them to play.

Painful stuff to watch and I'm not even talking about the defending!

[Keyblade]

I dont even take satisfaction on posting about McLeish anymore. I am fed up with those who are desperate to justify him being manager no matter how poor. I dont care whose fault people argue it is, if you are getting paid millions to manage what effectively is a multination, multi million pound business then effectively, the buck stops with you.

So far, attendances are down, merchandising is down, performances in the main product area are down and the business is stagnating at best.

Question is, what you going to do Randy?

Nobody's justifying him being manager by saying he wasn't at fault for the goals. Really shows up your extremely clouded judgement. To you there are only those who are vitriolically against McLeish no matter what happens, and those who are staunchly pro-McLeish. Which is absolutely ridiculous. For one, I'm sure you remember the poll held on this very site where there were only like 3 people out of 300+ who wanted McLeish to stay. Most of us didn't want him, and would rather he got fired asap, but that doesn't mean that we hurl vitriol at him at any window of opportunity no matter how small or nonexistant.

When I last posted on this thread, I pleaded with those who were "advocating" supporting McLeish to give me some light on the horizon, some reason why I should be swayed. One person tried, Stanthemanisgod, the rest was just foundationless, hopeful meanderings usually by those who think that this is as good as we actually are.

I think we are better and if these players were properly organised and motivated, we would. If they were not, then I would expect the right manager to make the hard decisions that he is paid to do. Houllier did and got ridiculed, now, the club is a joke.

There isn't any 'swaying' needed. Virtually nobody thinks he is the one to manage us, and the majority of Villa fans (I'm talking 90%) feel he should be fired immediately. So your perception of people's opinions is quite perplexing.

So your beef is that I vitriolic against McLeish? My decision making is clouded?

Where am I calling him GC, or that ginger word removed. Enlighten me?

As far as I can see, all of the things I posted are disappointingly true. Do I take delight in that, do I heck.

You accuse me of siezing on any small opportunity to have a go, I would argue that I have plenty of grounds for justifiable cause! It is more the few on here who sieze on results such as Wolves as some sign of footballing enlightenment and a path to Utopia. That is what frustrates me!

That said, this thread is nothing but argumentative and I am certain a number of posters are not that interested in debating the pros and cons of McLeish, but more on refuting anything that their self appointed nemesis says.

I wasn't referring to you specifically. Just those who in general think that those who don't hate AM as much as they do are 'defending' him or have some sort of affinity for him. This isn't the case as I've already mentioned. Barely anyone (this is being generous) thinks he's a good enough manager for us. But you should get off your high horse you've been known to call said people 'AM's mate' and other such names...just as immature as GC etc.

My point is, we (and AM) are average. Average is nowhere near enough to warrant the amount of hyperbole seen on this thread. Plain and simple.

[jon_c]

I think it's the terribme defence that irks me the most. During my time as a Villa fan I've had the privilage of watching some top, top class defenders in our teams. It is what makes watching these muppets play week in, week out so very painful.

[Morpheus]

So is there anyone, one single person who agrees with Alex McLeish that our performance in the first half was, and I quote him directly here "international class".

This from the man who has given us such gems as "Downing won't be sold", "Robbie Keane is at his peak" and "its a myth that I'm defensive".

I would be stunned if there is a single person who watched the match that agrees with him, perhaps now everyone can agree on at least one thing. Alex McLeish is deluded.

Well there are some pretty poor international teams out there, maybe he was referring to one of those?

Two good break away goals shouldn't hide the fact that on the whole our possession, passing and movement was rubbish in both halves of the game. The fact that McCleish thinks we played well in the first half worrys me intensely!

All Arsenal had to do was step it up for 15mins, then sit back and watch our shite footballing team try to create something when their defence play a deep defensive line rather than a high one.

All the bad things happening at the club are not McCleish's fault, but he certainly isn't helping.

Its our chairman thats deluded thinking that AM was capable of managing our club with a CV thats screams relegation!

[Eames]

I've always tried to defend McLeish - mainly because he seems to be a really decent bloke, and had the bollocks to cross the city in the face of 200 retards chanting outside Villa Park when he was appointed.

I don't think he's the right guy for the job and there are better managers out there.... but he IS our manager and we SHOULD support him and the team all the while he is. Booing our players off the field, in fact booing at any point is disgusting. If I walked into a team meeting and told the people who work for me that they are all shit and shouldn't be doing the job - it will never motivate them to better things.

Was our performance yesterday "international class" - no (unless he's been watching far to much of the ACON - **** me there is some tackling going on there).

Is he the right man for the job - no.

But do you know what, whislt he is our manager he and the team will enjoy my unwaivering support because I do not beleive that calling him a "ginger word removed" and some of the other abuse he's been subjected to is going to improve his or the teams performance at all. In the face of what he has had to endure so far, I hope he does something truly special with us in the next 3 years.... because face it he IS here for three years.... just to wipe some of the inane grins of the negative, abusive pricks so consumed with hatred for him that they refuse to see the bigger picture.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Houlston]

Just wondering what people think McLeish should have done to counteract the way Arsenal started the second half?

Its all very well saying we sat too deep but sometimes other teams dictate how you play and the way Arsenal played at the start of the second was more to do with them than us.

On top of that would any tactical change have stopped Dunne and Bent diving in?

We have so many football managers on here that know best, from those that think Cuellar is a very good defender when he really isnt that good. Theres the Clark fan club mainly because he is technically good but without any pace or strength he'll never be better than average in the English game. I saw someone saying Albrighton should have come on yesterday when he wasnt even on the bench.

At the end of the day we arent that good a side, we have a small amount of good players and we have an average manager but even with Mourinho in charge we'd realistically only be a few points better off and we'd still have lost yesterday.

This whole thing about accepting mediocrity is nonsense, mediocre in the premier league yes maybe but thats like having a good bottle of wine every day and moaning that you want champagne.

I dont see where this high expectation comes from either other than three decades ago. We may have a high total points total in the premier league but thats only because we've been in it from the start our average finish in it is 8th which is a bit better than average. We are even nicknamed by other teams fans as Aston Vanilla that hasnt happened this season.

[Woodytom]

The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward.

[Majkee]

If players are repeating errors then it is the responsibility of management to train it out of them or to drop the player in question. That they haven't been able to do that isn't the players fault. And it's not as if the players were repeatedly making the same mistakes under both our previous managers.

(There is such a thing as an individual error, but when these build up and up in number you have to start looking for the culprit higher up the chain.)

if players fullfill their natural potential and this potential is limited (like repeating same errors) there is no other way to teach them not to do it. you can not teach the dog to fly like an eagle and vice versa. our players are limited, they have fullfilled their potential and they are not good enough to compete with best. no manager would do wonders with them. Warnock will do silly sliding tackles, Dunne will have his blunders, Hutton is past it (shame), everyone will do silly mistakes proper to their skill level and potential. they are done. it is clear as summer sky in Africa.

[jacketspuds]

The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward.

So why aren't the players doing it? Lack of confidence? Ability? Both?

The manager at a club has such an impact on everything the players do. If there's no respect for the manager then a club will never succeed, and we have had to put up with a manager who cannot command respect for 2 seasons now.

Yes the players need to take some of the responsibility as there are a fair few ego's in our dressing room but appointing AMC was always going to be a disaster. He cannot organise a team, the amount of times our defence was all over the place yesterday was shocking. You'd think after 6 months in charge you would expect to see some improvement, or signs that point to it, but we are making mistake after mistake and playing the same awful football 80% of the time.

And to top it off we have a manager who clearly thinks that he can bullshit his way through any fan criticism.

[CI]

Is it just the defence though? At one point yesterday, the arsenal centre back (the really shit one) ran 80 yards with the ball virtually into our box totally unchallenged !! WTF ?? Where was the midfield ??

[Woodytom]

The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward.

So why aren't the players doing it? Lack of confidence? Ability? Both?

The manager at a club has such an impact on everything the players do. If there's no respect for the manager then a club will never succeed, and we have had to put up with a manager who cannot command respect for 2 seasons now.

Yes the players need to take some of the responsibility as there are a fair few ego's in our dressing room but appointing AMC was always going to be a disaster. He cannot organise a team, the amount of times our defence was all over the place yesterday was shocking. You'd think after 6 months in charge you would expect to see some improvement, or signs that point to it, but we are making mistake after mistake and playing the same awful football 80% of the time.

And to top it off we have a manager who clearly thinks that he can bullshit his way through any fan criticism.

Lack of ability would be my immediate answer. For me, we never keep the ball long enough to impose any sort of game plan of our own on other teams. And its been like that for yonks at Villa. I really do wonder if theyve ever practiced keeping the ball in training in a long time at AVFC. Its abysmal to watch. That said, the football for the 2nd goal was outstanding so they can do it.

[barry'sboots]

I dont even take satisfaction on posting about McLeish anymore. I am fed up with those who are desperate to justify him being manager no matter how poor. I dont care whose fault people argue it is, if you are getting paid millions to manage what effectively is a multination, multi million pound business then effectively, the buck stops with you.

So far, attendances are down, merchandising is down, performances in the main product area are down and the business is stagnating at best.

Question is, what you going to do Randy?

Nobody's justifying him being manager by saying he wasn't at fault for the goals. Really shows up your extremely clouded judgement. To you there are only those who are vitriolically against McLeish no matter what happens, and those who are staunchly pro-McLeish. Which is absolutely ridiculous. For one, I'm sure you remember the poll held on this very site where there were only like 3 people out of 300+ who wanted McLeish to stay. Most of us didn't want him, and would rather he got fired asap, but that doesn't mean that we hurl vitriol at him at any window of opportunity no matter how small or nonexistant.

Can you highlight the vitriol in his post please because I am really struggling to spot it? I think he is presenting his view fairly calmly, particularly after having watched yesterday's second half when McLeish did nothing tactically to prevent the Arsenal onslaught that was all so evident to anyone watching.

McLeish is tactically naive, as was MON IMO but he had the offsetting benefit of being a superb motivator, and really isn't capable of managing at this level as his CV so aptly demonstrates.

Those who continue to support McLeish are, IMO, not acting in the benefit of the club as the club will only progress once he has been shown the door. Of course, you are entitled to hold a different view and this is the very nature of forums.

[AValon]

The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward.

Definitely a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you dont'.

[jacketspuds]

The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward.

So why aren't the players doing it? Lack of confidence? Ability? Both?

The manager at a club has such an impact on everything the players do. If there's no respect for the manager then a club will never succeed, and we have had to put up with a manager who cannot command respect for 2 seasons now.

Yes the players need to take some of the responsibility as there are a fair few ego's in our dressing room but appointing AMC was always going to be a disaster. He cannot organise a team, the amount of times our defence was all over the place yesterday was shocking. You'd think after 6 months in charge you would expect to see some improvement, or signs that point to it, but we are making mistake after mistake and playing the same awful football 80% of the time.

And to top it off we have a manager who clearly thinks that he can bullshit his way through any fan criticism.

Lack of ability would be my immediate answer. For me, we never keep the ball long enough to impose any sort of game plan of our own on other teams. And its been like that for yonks at Villa. I really do wonder if theyve ever practiced keeping the ball in training in a long time at AVFC. Its abysmal to watch. That said, the football for the 2nd goal was outstanding so they can do it.

I guess this comes back to the manager then. They can do it, so why aren't they? It's clearly not easier just to hoof the ball away and precede to panic defend for large periods of the game so why do they do it?

We need a manager who demands that our players play football. I would imagine that a fair few of us, myself included, would actually be surprised at how skillful some of our players are.

Our squad is not Top 6 material but we have some good players...

Given - Quality GK

Warnock/Hutton - I have never seen either play so badly for the previous clubs it's like they don't have a clue what to do.

Dunne - Always looks good for ROI

Ireland - Getting back to playing quite well.

CNZ - Another who I've never seen play so badly for anyone else.

Bent - Goal Machine.

I just wish we had someone like Paul Lambert who would sort our team out.

I struggle to judge how crap/good all of our players are at the moment whilst they play for a clueless, tactic free manager.