Alec Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Martinez would be a genuinely intriguing choice on the part of Mr. Lerner if he ultimately decides to go with him - and I think a lot of people from outside of the club will be watching with great interest too. I've written before that I really like the guy and have a lot of respect for how he has aquitted himself at Wigan. Throughout some pretty dark times last season, he never laid the blame at the feet of his players, many of whom were guilty of some glaring errors, or officials, who on several occasions made decisions that went against them in favour of 'bigger' opponents, and resolutely stuck to the footballing principles he believes in. Obviously, one could argue that this smacks of naivete as much as strength of character, and probably the biggest reservation Villa fans will have is just how much steel he can bring to both the job and a defensive backline that at times last season looked as shaky as Wigan's. But looking at the bigger picture, what he has tried to do at Wigan in just two years has in many respects been nothing short of revolutionary. It's one thing to introduce a new style of play at a club like Villa as Houllier attempted but another entirely at Wigan. For all of the accusations of Martin O'Neill's dogmatic reliance on a one-dimensional, counter-attacking approach with little in the way of a Plan B, Houllier still inherited a group of players with much to offer. Given the awkward nature of many of last season's performances, Villa fans naturally - and quite rightly - summised that even the more subtle changes toward a more possession driven style of play were proving a challenge to implement. One can only imagine the challenge Martinez faced when attempting to introduce his ideas on a team that had until his arrival offered little variation on a basic kick and run philosophy dictated by meagre resources and little hope of attracting any 'name' talent. It was more than simply changing a style of play, it was changing the entire culture throughout the playing and coaching structure. That he has kept Wigan in the Premier League, albeit by very narrow margins, is an achievement that in many respects may be more impressive than the more comfortable mid-table finishes they had achieved under Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce. Yes, it has undoubtedly been a risky strategy - and one must wonder how long it can realistically work if the team are unable to move beyond where they are now - but you have to respect the sheer boldness in even trying to compete in this fashion with so little to work with. Likewise, the same principles he instilled at Swansea now look to have been rewarded by the work Brendan Rogers has done since taking over, building upon the platform laid by Martinez. For those saying his track record is not good enough or has been unsuccessful, it has to be evaluated in relative terms. Over the course of a very short career as a manager, he has arguably achieved as much as is humanly possible within the scope of the roles he has taken. Of course, one of the things that people always say about Wigan is that you never know what you are going to get; the well-organised, tactically astute, attractive football that is able to pull off the most unexpected of results or the listless, defensively fragile soft touch against whom the more ruthless of oppositions can run up cricket scores. That kind of unpredictability will not be accepted at Villa and Martinez will find he has to deliver consistency a lot faster than the latitude shown at Wigan afforded him. But for those Villa fans that yearn for a 'total football' approach and fantasise about us someday emulating the Barcelona or Arsenal style of play, that drills these principles in to every facet of the club's infrastructure and paves the way for sustainable improvement in which a modern, technical way of thinking is applied throughout, then Martinez may emerge as the most likely and realistic candidate. What his appointment will require from us as supporters is patience and an inclination to examine how he will try to go about achieving this. The good news is that in many ways the club has been 'primed' for such a manager to take over by the tribulation of Houllier's year in charge and the squad is almost certainly in better shape to be receptive to this than it was in the immediate aftermath of O'Neill's departure. What concerns me more than anything is how he will fare in the transfer market. This will be the first time he has had anything approaching a sizeable budget to work with and so is almost entirely unproven when it comes to identifying players at this level. It is also impossible to know exactly what kind of 'pull' he will have in terms of attracting ambitious players - and the same goes for persuading our better current players to remain at the club. Any manager taking over now faces a very busy summer and intense pre-season as there are still a number of players whose status at the club is uncertain (Warnock, Ireland, Beye, arguably Dunne and Collins) and key positions that look decidely lightweight in the wake of recent departures (Friedel, Reo-Coker), not to mention the issues surrounding Ashley Young and Stewart Downing. There will be little or no allowance for 'easing' in to the job and these are just a few of the problems requiring immediate attention that will make for an immense step up for someone such as Martinez. The fact that he may be willing to take all of this on may, in and of itself, point to a character that is made of far sterner stuff than outward appearances suggest. If Martinez does prove to be Mr. Lerner's choice, it will be a brave and, in its own way, ambitious move - a signal of intent to deliver a highly desirable style of football that could take us beyond the ceiling seemingly reached by O'Neill, or that could prove to be the limit for a Mark Hughes or a David Moyes. But whereas those figures can all but guarantee our competitivity at that level, Martinez' approach runs the risk of losing initial ground in the pursuit of long-term results, or worst case scenario, sees us once again struggling at the lower end of the table. It's a difficult call but I think I would be willing to support it and hope that it works. If it does, it could prove to be a masterstroke and Martinez may emerge as one of the most exciting managers we will have seen at Villa Park in an age. 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Grievemeister Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The idea of martinez is that he will bring us sucess in a different way. You mean he'll win us the Championship? Well its a trophy isnt it:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I doubt Martinez will be the only manager villa will be looking at. Im sure there will be other candidates just whelan is the only one who's come out and confirmed that we have have made contact and he's given permission for us to speak to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 MM said the next manager appointment will cause a Bent-style meltdown. I read that as the press/fans would be hugely surprised by the signing, whether it's good or bad.Well MM mentioned that he didn't want to disrupt the natural process of it, or something like that. Also, a Bent style meltdown would put us into frenzy of excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeVilla82 Posted June 9, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2011 Martinez would be a genuinely intriguing choice on the part of Mr. Lerner if he ultimately decides to go with him - and I think a lot of people from outside of the club will be watching with great interest too. I've written before that I really like the guy and have a lot of respect for how he has aquitted himself at Wigan. Throughout some pretty dark times last season, he never laid the blame at the feet of his players, many of whom were guilty of some glaring errors, or officials, who on several occasions made decisions that went against them in favour of 'bigger' opponents, and resolutely stuck to the footballing principles he believes in. Obviously, one could argue that this smacks of naivete as much as strength of character, and probably the biggest reservation Villa fans will have is just how much steel he can bring to both the job and a defensive backline that at times last season looked as shaky as Wigan's. But looking at the bigger picture, what he has tried to do at Wigan in just two years has in many respects been nothing short of revolutionary. It's one thing to introduce a new style of play at a club like Villa as Houllier attempted but another entirely at Wigan. For all of the accusations of Martin O'Neill's dogmatic reliance on a one-dimensional, counter-attacking approach with little in the way of a Plan B, Houllier still inherited a group of players with much to offer. Given the awkward nature of many of last season's performances, Villa fans naturally - and quite rightly - summised that even the more subtle changes toward a more possession driven style of play were proving a challenge to implement. One can only imagine the challenge Martinez faced when attempting to introduce his ideas on a team that had until his arrival offered little variation on a basic kick and run philosophy dictated by meagre resources and little hope of attracting any 'name' talent. It was more than simply changing a style of play, it was changing the entire culture throughout the playing and coaching structure. That he has kept Wigan in the Premier League, albeit by very narrow margins, is an achievement that in many respects may be more impressive than the more comfortable mid-table finishes they had achieved under Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce. Yes, it has undoubtedly been a risky strategy - and one must wonder how long it can realistically work if the team are unable to move beyond where they are now - but you have to respect the sheer boldness in even trying to compete in this fashion with so little to work with. Likewise, the same principles he instilled at Swansea now look to have been rewarded by the work Brendan Rogers has done since taking over, building upon the platform laid by Martinez. For those saying his track record is not good enough or has been unsuccessful, it has to be evaluated in relative terms. Over the course of a very short career as a manager, he has arguably achieved as much as is humanly possible within the scope of the roles he has taken. Of course, one of the things that people always say about Wigan is that you never know what you are going to get; the well-organised, tactically astute, attractive football that is able to pull off the most unexpected of results or the listless, defensively fragile soft touch against whom the more ruthless of oppositions can run up cricket scores. That kind of unpredictability will not be accepted at Villa and Martinez will find he has to deliver consistency a lot faster than the latitude shown at Wigan afforded him. But for those Villa fans that yearn for a 'total football' approach and fantasise about us someday emulating the Barcelona or Arsenal style of play, that drills these principles in to every facet of the club's infrastructure and paves the way for sustainable improvement in which a modern, technical way of thinking is applied throughout, then Martinez may emerge as the most likely and realistic candidate. What his appointment will require from us as supporters is patience and an inclination to examine how he will try to go about achieving this. The good news is that in many ways the club has been 'primed' for such a manager to take over by the tribulation of Houllier's year in charge and the squad is almost certainly in better shape to be receptive to this than it was in the immediate aftermath of O'Neill's departure. What concerns me more than anything is how he will fare in the transfer market. This will be the first time he has had anything approaching a sizeable budget to work with and so is almost entirely unproven when it comes to identifying players at this level. It is also impossible to know exactly what kind of 'pull' he will have in terms of attracting ambitious players - and the same goes for persuading our better current players to remain at the club. Any manager taking over now faces a very busy summer and intense pre-season as there still a number of players whose status at the club is uncertain (Warnock, Ireland, Beye, arguably Dunne and Collins) and key positions that look decidely lightweight in the wake of recent departures (Friedel, Reo-Coker), not to mention the issues surrounding Ashley Young and Stewart Downing. There will be little or no allowance for 'easing' in to the job and these are just a few of the problems requiring immediate attention that will make for an immense step up for someone such as Martinez. The fact that he may be willing to take all of this on may, in and of itself, point to a character that is made of far sterner stuff than outward appearances suggest. If Martinez does prove to be Mr. Lerner's choice, it will be a brave and, in its own way, ambitious move - a signal of intent to deliver a highly desirable style of football that could take us beyond the ceiling seemingly reached by O'Neill, or that could prove to the limit for a Mark Hughes or a David Moyes. But whereas those figures can all but guarantee our competitivity at that level, Martinez' approach runs the risk of losing initial ground in the pursuit of long-term results, or worst case scenario, sees us once again struggling at the lower end of the table. It's a difficult call but I think I would be willing to support it and hope that it works. If it does, it could prove to be a masterstroke and Martinez may emerge as one of the most exciting managers we will have seen at Villa Park in an age. Great post - completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomer Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Speculation and discussion are what the thread is for. However speculation is not something to use to criticise Lerner and the club. Why not? My point is that IF it turns out to be Martinez it will be hugely disappointing given the calibre of manager in the market for a job at the moment. IF that happens, then in my opinion it will be fairly obvious that Randy has downsized his ambition for Aston Villa and wants a man who can work on a downscaled budget. Because IF that happens it no longer is speculation and then becomes fact. At which point you could fairly criticise the board if you didn't like the decision. But don't criticise them for what might happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jat_r Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I doubt Martinez will be the only manager villa will be looking at. Im sure there will be other candidates just whelan is the only one who's come out and confirmed that we have have made contact and he's given permission for us to speak to him. This is what I'm saying! But I think if we do bring in Martinez and some good coaching staff, especially a defensive coach I think we could do some damage! Hell Yeah lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 We are still interviewing and pursuing the managers, it's that simple. We just know Martinez is one who has had an interview due to their chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammy Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Nice post Alec. That gives me a bit of hope if it does turn out to be Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Roberto Martinez believes in good football. The passing stats for Swansea under RM were phenominal for an"ordinary" team (550 passes per game av) and even Wigan managed to equal those stats on occasions. That's a "Wenger" like philosophy! If it is to be Martinez then Houlliers efforts over the last season to get Villa to be more comfortable with the ball at their feet will not have been wasted. Win, lose or draw we will watch some attractive football. That'll do for me. UTV!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHW Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Alec Very good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Another top post Alec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Martinez my God ! Is this how far our club has fallen I'd rather see KMac & Sid have a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Alec Very good post. This! Shows a bit of imagination if you ask me bucking the trend to sign someone like Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Alec for manager!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 We are focused right now on trying to secure the best candidate who will complement the Club's commitment to being true to our heritage, competitiveness and passionate fan base. And if that doesn't work out we'll appoint a manager who has managed two 16th finishes in a row. But hey, it's not McClaren! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Just seen your post Alec. A great post about a potential managerial star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Is that a hole in my screen? No, just an empty statement. There's more content in an amoeba. I think it's acknowledgement of all the media frenzy over McClaren, Benitez and now Martinez... To me it reads everyone needs to take a deep breath and just be patient. Julie you have taken the words out of my mouth. Villa seem to try and get things to the fans first, and I thinks its a case of "ignore what you read, things are happening and WE will tell you when there is something worth telling" We all know RL likes to keep things close to his chest, the press only have to hear one word and they can turn it in to a back page story (assumption) legally this could put us in a precarious position legally but also make worse the 2 + 2 + 5 that we are getting from the press at the moment. Try and have a bit of fairth in the guy and if you want to have a bit of fun while waiting I have a cracking idea to make time pass a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 We are still interviewing and pursuing the managers, it's that simple. We just know Martinez is one who has had an interview due to their chairman. True that. I keep saying it, but until I see someone at Villa Park, holding a scalf or shirt up, I ain't putting my money on anyone. Just because we're talking to Marthinez doesn't mean he's the only candidate. There's a twist or two left in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Is this how far our club has fallenThe amount of times I've seen this phrase used in relation something that hasn't happened yet is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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