Houllier Do You want him or not?

[Danwichmann]

I voted yes by mistake, should have read it more carefully! So that's another NO then. GET RID! We aint a 8th-12th club like he has stated!

.... but in the history of the Premier League, 8-12th is a fairly accurate average.

Seriously? Check your facts.

Not this argument again..

92/93: 2nd

93/94: 10th

94/95: 18th

95/96: 4th

96/97: 5th

97/98: 7th

98/99: 6th

99/00: 6th

00/01: 8th

01/02: 8th

02/03: 16th

03/04: 6th

04/05: 10th

05/06: 16th

06/07: 11th

07/08: 6th

08/09: 6th

09/10: 6th

I said "fairly accurate" which, in my opinion, it is.

If you average it out properly it will probably give you a result of something like 6th-10th (I haven't worked it out, I'm just guessing).

Average of 8.4. If you take it from only the last 10 or 5 years, it's more like 9. Over the history of the PL (and yes, I appreciate we have a much longer history than that!) we're generally speaking an upper mid table club. We could and should be more but to call us an 8th-12th club is realistic, not unfair.

[Cracker1234]

I voted yes by mistake, should have read it more carefully! So that's another NO then. GET RID! We aint a 8th-12th club like he has stated!

.... but in the history of the Premier League, 8-12th is a fairly accurate average.

Seriously? Check your facts.

Not this argument again..

92/93: 2nd

93/94: 10th

94/95: 18th

95/96: 4th

96/97: 5th

97/98: 7th

98/99: 6th

99/00: 6th

00/01: 8th

01/02: 8th

02/03: 16th

03/04: 6th

04/05: 10th

05/06: 16th

06/07: 11th

07/08: 6th

08/09: 6th

09/10: 6th

I said "fairly accurate" which, in my opinion, it is.

If you average it out properly it will probably give you a result of something like 6th-10th (I haven't worked it out, I'm just guessing).

Average of 8.4. If you take it from only the last 10 or 5 years, it's more like 9. Over the history of the PL (and yes, I appreciate we have a much longer history than that!) we're generally speaking an upper mid table club. We could and should be more but to call us an 8th-12th club is realistic, not unfair.

Since the PL started though we have been 8th-12th...He wasn't wrong then?

[TJVilla]

I genuinely don't know how I feel at the moment. Was very apathetic when we appointed Houllier anyways. It just showed that he was the best available manager at the time. Are there any better available now? Probably not. Not ones who aren't working and would be interested in coming to our club.

Im upset and angry at the way Houllier has disrespected our club while taking every opportunity to tell the world how much he loves Liverpool. Did you hear Potato Head saying 'oh it was a great result for the Toon' when his Sunderland side got hammered by Newcastle? Of course not, because even though he's a lifelong Newcastle fan, even he isn't stupid enough to say that out loud. At the end of the day, you shouldn't be happy to lose to ANYONE. If you lose, you hurt.

MON had his problems (and probably still does). His transfer policy was poor. He over spent on wages. He relied too heavily on the same XI at the expense of allowing the youngsters some game time to develop. However, in his defence, he led us to three consecutive 6th place finishes, and a major cup final. He got a squad of average players believing they were world beaters. He made us difficult to beat. He gave us passion and pride for pulling on the claret and blue shirt. None of these things are apparent at the club at the moment.

We all know things may have been very different. Missing out on players who could've made a real difference when we needed them. I don't want to start another transfer rant, but there were players who were available who have proved at their new clubs that they were exactly what we needed. MON either didn't fancy them or we couldn't attract them. Whichever way, its now irrelevant.

Houllier has to really pull his finger out of himself if he's allowed to stay during the January transfer window. We don't need 3x 40 year old players or players he's had before at Liverpool. If we end up with Cisse or Diouf Im not watching another game this season. We need exciting players. Players with heart, with passion, who are willing to run themselves into the ground for the club. Of course this is going to cost a a heck of a lot of money. Money which we may / may not have, and obviously January is the hardest time to buy players of quality.

If Houllier is to go, I wont be too fussed. If he stays, he needs to buck his ideas up ASAP. The next two games are matches where we'd be expecting 6 points, at the minute I can't see us getting 2 points. The Liverpool game was a disgrace. Downing was the only player who looked like he actually wanted to play. We have nothing at the minute, and its time for the manager to install some belief and tactical awareness into our squad. We have pace, we cannot play a slow methodical game.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

I voted yes by mistake, should have read it more carefully! So that's another NO then. GET RID! We aint a 8th-12th club like he has stated!

.... but in the history of the Premier League, 8-12th is a fairly accurate average.

Seriously? Check your facts.

Not this argument again..

92/93: 2nd

93/94: 10th

94/95: 18th

95/96: 4th

96/97: 5th

97/98: 7th

98/99: 6th

99/00: 6th

00/01: 8th

01/02: 8th

02/03: 16th

03/04: 6th

04/05: 10th

05/06: 16th

06/07: 11th

07/08: 6th

08/09: 6th

09/10: 6th

I said "fairly accurate" which, in my opinion, it is.

If you average it out properly it will probably give you a result of something like 6th-10th (I haven't worked it out, I'm just guessing).

I don't believe this is the correct way to judge the average position, the all time premier league table is a better reflector IMO.

Case in point, Chelsea, if you're calculating their average positions during the premier league you'd get 5.17, yet they're clearly not the 5th/6th when it comes to the success they've had during that period.

[Big_John_10]

If he was doing a good job people wouldn't have to defend comments he made.

I don't really care what comments he makes, he's already shown himself us as an idiot. What I care about is the kind of football I have to watch and the results we get and so far both have been complete shit

[Cracker1234]

Well lets hope he can change them John, because I can't see him going anywhere this season....I can only see Randy keeping him, giving him time to bring in players who just might be able to play the way he wants the team to play.

[Rob182]

BG_Villa_Fan, an average can be taken in many ways. My point was that Houllier saying "8th-12th in the Premier League" isn't strictly wrong.

(Danwichmann, thanks for working it out! I knew I wasn't far off, I was in top maths class in school 8) )

[mrbojangles]

I voted dont care and my reason is as follows. He has not had a transfer market to bring in and get rid of players. The injury list so far has been pretty immense and he has not been abl to utilise a fit squad so far. On the other hand the stunt that he pulled at Anfield has angered me as well as others and even with an injury list that we have I think we have the class if he utilises it properly to be getting better results than we have been getting.

If it was yes no I would prob side on the get him out side. It will be interesting to see what if anything happens in January. I will reserve ultimate judgment until then.

I hope things get better before then but dont see it somehow.

As always UTV

[BG_Villa_Fan]

BG_Villa_Fan, an average can be taken in many ways. My point was that Houllier saying "8th-12th in the Premier League" isn't strictly wrong.

My point is that having an average of 8.4 in the way you've calculated it, doesn't necessarily mean you're 8th/9th. Simple maths.

For reference, while our average is 8.4, Tottenham's is 9.4 and Everton's is 11.4.

This doesn't make these 3 teams 8th, 9th and 11th, get it?

[ryanvilla_1994]

Didnt want him to begin with.

Neither did I, but we need to give him a chance

[Rodders]

BG_Villa_Fan, an average can be taken in many ways. My point was that Houllier saying "8th-12th in the Premier League" isn't strictly wrong.

My point is that having an average of 8.4 in the way you've calculated it, doesn't necessarily mean you're 8th/9th. Simple maths.

For reference, while our average is 8.4, Tottenham's is 9.4 and Everton's is 11.4.

This doesn't make these 3 teams 8th, 9th and 11th, get it?

well one could say that neither club has for a while established themselves consistently in the higher positions to warrant "deserving" a top 5/6 label. We've had some good years, a couple of terrific years in the early nineties and some rubbish years. Will probably continue to do so until we hit the oil baron + right manager + right players combo.

Which is quite rare.

Which means in the meantime, a little support for what we do have might not go amiss once in a while.

We " only" have a billionaire owner and an experienced manager who's won titles at his previous clubs.

I'd suggest hastiness to attack and get rid one or both is misplaced. But lets agree to disagree as I'm fairly certain you disagree and there's I presume no chance either of us changing the others mind.

[Rob182]

BG_Villa_Fan, an average can be taken in many ways. My point was that Houllier saying "8th-12th in the Premier League" isn't strictly wrong.

My point is that having an average of 8.4 in the way you've calculated it, doesn't necessarily mean you're 8th/9th. Simple maths.

For reference, while our average is 8.4, Tottenham's is 9.4 and Everton's is 11.4.

This doesn't make these 3 teams 8th, 9th and 11th, get it?

Jesus christ. This is tiring. I haven't said anything along the lines of "THIS IS THE EXACT ANSWER. EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG". I'm stating that Houllier saying "8th-12th" isn't wrong. An average can be calculated in many ways.

If Spurs' average is 9.4 then saying "8th-10th" is probably accurate for them. Just because they finished 4th last year doesn't, all of a sudden, mean that they are now a "4th in the Premier League History" side.

My last post even said "an average can be taken in many ways".

Why are you arguing this?

I've said from the start that Houllier's comments weren't bad and were fairly accurate. I stand by what I said.

What don't you understand?

(By the way. In case you haven't read anything I've just posted. I'm NOT saying that "8th-12th" is the only way to describe us. I'm saying it's not invalid just because we've finished 6th for the last 3 years).

[Ulver]

People really do get the arse about some trival things.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Tiring indeed when belittling our club is the way to support the manager and arguing against the 8th-12th label is apparently not showing support.

[Super-Villan]

I don't think whether 8th to 12th is 'correct' is even the issue. It's about it being a stupid thing to say regardless, and realising that it might be seen as negative by fans, who, if anything, probably want their club to be talked up rather than down by a new manager.

[briny_ear]

Mathematically valid or not, describing Villa as an 8-12th club as you come in to take them over after 3 seasons of decent shots at 4th, is a pretty downbeat, negative and crass thing to say.

(EDIT - although he seems to be having a fair go at making it true this season)

[markavfc40]

Oh the old 8th - 12 chestnut rears its ugly head again.

I look at it like this:

We are the 4th most successful/decorated club in the history of English football.

We have the 5th highest combined points total since the Premiership began.

We have just finish 6th three times on the bounce.

Whatever way you look at it, long, medium, short term we are anything but an 8th - 12th placed club.

It would be nice to think that the manager of this great club would see us better than that. Clearly trying not to put too much pressure on himself for me. Looking at things now though I would take 12th under this idiot.

[TJVilla]

It would have been very easy for him to say, 'in recent years Aston Villa have shown they're a side capable battling for the top 4. I want to build on that and hope for the same again this year'. Easy. But then again, it must have been hard knowing that Liverpool might finish above us, so he probably hedging his bets.

[HolteExile]

Mathematically valid or not, describing Villa as an 8-12th club as you come in to take them over after 3 seasons of decent shots at 4th, is a pretty downbeat, negative and crass thing to say.

(EDIT - although he seems to be having a fair go at making it true this season)

^^

Exactly.

Last time I heard such downplaying, negative patter was from DOL.

Not the only thing that pair seem to have in common.

[phil.]

He treats us like were a small club, like we had no right to finish 6th three seasons in a row and we completely overachieved. We even finished above his beloved Liverpool last season, he must have thought that was an absolute travesty. So far he's said absolutly nothing to make me feel positive about him being our manager, he just seems to have no passion for our club and likes to play down achievements over the past three years. i really cant bring myself round to liking this guy at the moment, and week by week he's making me dislike him even more.