Houllier Do You want him or not?

[TJVilla]

Even Meltyface has been talking up his Spurs team, and that gets to the players. They react and believe they are capable of going into games and winning because their manager says they can. Motivation is a difficult thing to do successfully, but it wouldn't have hurt to say that this club has already shown we have / had the foundations for mounting a challenge for Europe. He might aswell have just come out and said 'as long as we don't get relegated that would be a great season for us'.

[VillaAndLoyal]

I don't think whether 8th to 12th is 'correct' is even the issue. It's about it being a stupid thing to say regardless, and realising that it might be seen as negative by fans, who, if anything, probably want their club to be talked up rather than down by a new manager.

Thank the lord that yourself, Briny_ear and HolteExile realise the point to all this.

People arguing about whether we are actually a "8th to 12th" side You couldn't make it up!

[fran_villa]

Even Meltyface has been talking up his Spurs team, and that gets to the players. They react and believe they are capable of going into games and winning because their manager says they can. Motivation is a difficult thing to do successfully, but it wouldn't have hurt to say that this club has already shown we have / had the foundations for mounting a challenge for Europe. He might aswell have just come out and said 'as long as we don't get relegated that would be a great season for us'.

thats the kind of rocket polisher we have in charge,i'm begining to think that this useless prick has been brought in to lower expectations by Randy,save himself from having to splash out and so on..

[Jez]

[Richard]

It would have been very easy for him to say, 'in recent years Aston Villa have shown they're a side capable battling for the top 4. I want to build on that and hope for the same again this year'. Easy. But then again, it must have been hard knowing that Liverpool might finish above us, so he probably hedging his bets.

Not sure it was knowing that plop may finish above us, it was basically him not being able to bring himself to suggest that we may finish above them

[markavfc40]

You had my hopes up for a second Jez but that doesn't even look like Houllier. That man is much younger and doesn't have a Liverpool scarf on.

[Jez]

You had my hopes up for a second Jez but that doesn't even look like Houllier. That man is much younger and doesn't have a Liverpool scarf on.

Thats that for you then Mark, he didn't thank you at Anfield so will never be given a chance in your eyes, even though MON never thanks away fans every single time?

[Richard]

You had my hopes up for a second Jez but that doesn't even look like Houllier. That man is much younger and doesn't have a Liverpool scarf on.

In a quite depressing period of my support to the club, that made I larf!

[fran_villa]

You had my hopes up for a second Jez but that doesn't even look like Houllier. That man is much younger and doesn't have a Liverpool scarf on.

Thats that for you then Mark, he didn't thank you at Anfield so will never be given a chance in your eyes, even though MON never thanks away fans every single time?

i wasnt MONs biggest fan at all,but there are plenty of times he said our away support was fantastic.i dont remember after what games but i do remember him bigging the fans up..

[AshVilla]

made me laugh as well shame his press release wasnt enough to fan those flames either

[theunderstudy]

Even so they still had relative experience and internationals in midfield - we had Hogg and Clark as heart of midfield.

We had loads of internationals elsewhere on the field, I don't get your point. The two aforementioned youngsters you are making out to be "handicaps" in our side are the same youngsters who everyone has been raving about against sides such as United.

Swings and roundabouts.

Not really, Hogg and Clark have been decent at times but also poor at times, the reason the likes of Petrov are first team players and captain and Reo-Coker similar, is because they are very consistant. Even their bad games, they still don't give the ball away, usually make the right decisions and are can lead the team. That is why a lot of youngsters at clubs who are good enough are usually rotated around, play some games, not play the majority, simply because consistancy levels aren't high enough to mantain good game after good game after good game.

If you had a central midfield pairing,

Petrov, Coker, Delph, Sidwell, Bannan and Ireland (as long as DM like Petrov/Coker is fit) would be ahead of Clark and Hogg. In fact, there's a good chance Gary Gardner would be as well.

At absolute minimum, they are 6th and 7th choice. You could go as for as 8th and 9th without being unrealistic.

Of course you can't blame everything on injuries because he as a manager should still be getting the senior players to stand up and produce more of a display even if you don't win. You can't just accept lifeless performances like Liverpool, it's not good enough, but unfortunately the midfield is a massive area. Obviously games I suppose are won and lost in both penalty areas but the midfield first gives you stability both defensive and going forward, gives you that basis in which to attack and experience to not allow opposition midfielders to find room and play simple passes in behind the midfield or even lose easy balls in the middle in the first place.

The heart of the midfield is vital.

Once we get some players back, I can't see us turning it around, winning game after game after game but I guarentee more consistancy, more battle in the performances and more assured look about the team and with that, you'd expect more points. (Again, I'm not saying huge differences before some smart arse makes some comment about me thinking we'll win the league or something)

I think if you just look towards the performances like Wolves, Chelsea, Sunderland, Spurs. The first 4 games (all with Coker/Petrov or Coker/Sidwell for part of Sunderland game), okay only 4 points (tough fixtures..) but in every game, we weren't phenomenal but we certainly deserved something from every game, when we went behind or got pegged back, we showed grit and determination to fight back against some good teams, without Gabby our main threat too.

I think when you don't have these players, Petrov, Reo-Coker, both leaders...when your defending, it's almost as if the defenders can feel a sense of inevitability. There's no Reo-Coker to just break from midfield and at least move us 50 yards up the field. Or Petrov to use his body and win us a free-kick. There's no real leaders out on the field and that shows. Lose a goal and it's head down until they talk to Houllier at HT.

In fact, the last 4 games, Blackburn, Blues, Arsenal, Liverpool.....the first halfs have been pretty poor and then second half, we've come out and actually threatened and started to dominate proceedings.

Houllier really hasn't done a good job, he's got things wrong especially in recent weeks and the whole thing with Cuellar not playing is a farce and I can absolutely fully 100% understand why people would want him out but I think it's also extremely ignorant to ignore or at least believe they aren't playing some part in the poor form of Aston Villa.

Maybe he really is a shite manager, don't win in the next two games and It's probably too much of a risk to find out, however although some situations haven't been handled well, some bad selections, some decent one's as well, I think it's still pretty inconclusive to judge his managerial capabilities. A lot of factors determine a good manager and there are lots of parts that managers need to do these things. For example, changing the way a player thinks, his mentallity on and off the pitch, the way a player plays, the way a team plays, the way they condition their body, these things don't just change after a couple months. Transfers, bringing in players a manager believes fits into the team and mentallity he is trying to bring to a club. Some players bought under the old regime will be ignorant of the way the club is changing, they won't believe in the new manager, their mentality and negativity that brings can be let go in order to make sure every player is reading from the same page in the way players should conduct themselves and what they expect, No time to do that.

I shouldn't bring up past managers but the last one (a good one might I add) in his first season, went through of a spell of around 11 Premiership matches without a win. Sometimes these things happen, the manager is still only getting to know the players both on a footballing level and at also at a personal level, so sometimes early on in a reign, managers can find it tough to understand how to get the very best out of players and the best way to utilize them.

These are not excuses, these are merely things that managers have/need/want to do or whatever.

Good managers are able to buy good players, buy players right for their team, able to change a team's mentality and the way they think over time and of course bring good results.

You take a look at O'Neill and Redknapp, they are able to do that, they buy players they know, like and trust and they play a way that they trust and know and install that into players and they are good managers because they can do it. You look at Dowie, Brian Laws let's say, whatever job they seem to do, they seem to do a very poor one.

Houllier has been successful in the past in different leagues, different standards but there are also have been years when he has been not so successful which makes it such a difficult outcome to predict about how successful he can be here. We do NOT know the future, a few people will believe in Houllier, will believe in time, he can do a good job, there are also people who have set opinions that they do not believe this manager is capable of achieving success. Neither are right or wrong.

As I've stated, I believe a manager needs time because there is so much too being a manager, what we've seen so far doesn't make Houllier a good or bad manager but the job he has done with the resources he's had has been poor but the job he has done so far is just 1/10th of what's needed to be successful.

However sometimes in a managers career, just that 1/10th of management going wrong can regularly be enough for chairman to decide they do not want to see the rest of the job. However just because 1/10th's of the job hasn't been done succesfully, that doesn't mean the rest of the job can't be and that is what the board have got to decide and also Houllier has got to show enough in this just small part of the bigger plan that he deserves to have a shot at the bigger plan.

That's the key, this is only a small part of the job, however does he deserve on viewing of the small part deserve a go at the big part? It's really, really hard to say taking everything into account.

It's interesting if you actually look at O'Neill, his first 9 games, I believe we were unbeaten, that immediately shows you he deserves a chance, yet his next 11 games, we didn't manage a win. Now just for a second, imagine that was the other way round, as he shown, in the end he was a very good appointment for this football club, so just because a small part of the job wasn't done right, that doesn't all of a sudden mean that the big part of that job can't be done right, especially seeming as the current manager has had success the majority of the time.

Absolutely no clue why I've just typed all that, nothing to do with anything but I think I've basically just typed out every thought and feeling that's come into my head over the past weeks.

In short, are we by sacking him now missing out on a brighter, more positive future, changes for the better once the rest of the 9/10ths of the job kicks in, or by sacking him now, are we cutting our loses because from the 1/10ths of management we have seen, it shows the level he is at is not good enough, because of it, the only way we will go is downwards and therefore must go before it really is too late.

I'd like to think common sense would take over and say unless time is given, then you really cannot give your full judgement on a manager and his capabilities at a football club, but then I think your heart tells you no. Look at it now, I never want to see this club in this type of position, a simple goodbye and a new man would change it, easily. Without the risk of failure.

I just don't know. It's not just to be a fence sitter but I can see points for and against, either side. I find myself torn between opinions.

Your mother.

[markavfc40]

You had my hopes up for a second Jez but that doesn't even look like Houllier. That man is much younger and doesn't have a Liverpool scarf on.

Thats that for you then Mark, he didn't thank you at Anfield so will never be given a chance in your eyes, even though MON never thanks away fans every single time?

If that was the only issue Jez then we'd have no real worries would we. The **** as us on a run of 1 win in 10. 10 points from 11 games in total. Lost to that shite down the road for the first time in years and out of the league cup. Often playing gutless negative tripe football. As the 4th best defence in the league playing like they couldn't defend even if their lifes depended on it.

I'd happily have the old fool stick his two fingers up at me every game if it meant we were winning. His disrespect was just the cherry on the icing on the cake for me.

As for Mon not thanking the away supporters every away game quite frankly its irrelevant but I will say this in his 4 year tenure I was at around half the away games and he always acknowledged us. He also constantly praised the away support publicly. Like I say though thats irrelevant but thought I'd comment as you again brought him up.

[smetrov]

I can't name my sources but apparently Paul Faulkner gave the players a bollocking yesterday.....IF true - incredible !

[Big_John_10]

MON might not have always applauded the away support but i bet he never **** clapped the home fans.

[TrentVilla]

MON might not have always applauded the away support but i bet he never **** clapped the home fans.

True. But then he quit 5 days before a season didn't he.

[o'lbs]

i've only just read the comments after the liverpool game. scum frenchman out.

[Big_John_10]

MON might not have always applauded the away support but i bet he never **** clapped the home fans.

True. But then he quit 5 days before a season didn't he.

Yes and if the idiots who thought houllier would be a good appointment hadn't closed the bank account we wouldn't be in this current mess.

[WickerMan]

Do.Not.Want.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

MON might not have always applauded the away support but i bet he never **** clapped the home fans.

True. But then he quit 5 days before a season didn't he.

Yes and if the idiots who thought houllier would be a good appointment hadn't closed the bank account we wouldn't be in this current mess.

So they invest £100+ million into the club, both in players/staff and also facilities. Yet you feel a need to call them 'idiots'...

[Mantis]

MON might not have always applauded the away support but i bet he never **** clapped the home fans.

True. But then he quit 5 days before a season didn't he.

Yes and if the idiots who thought houllier would be a good appointment hadn't closed the bank account we wouldn't be in this current mess.

Are you ITK?