Houllier Do You want him or not?

[VillaAndLoyal]

Even so they still had relative experience and internationals in midfield - we had Hogg and Clark as heart of midfield.

We had loads of internationals elsewhere on the field, I don't get your point. The two aforementioned youngsters you are making out to be "handicaps" in our side are the same youngsters who everyone has been raving about against sides such as United.

Swings and roundabouts.

[villaajax]

No. I didn't want him in the first place because I don't think he is the right man for us but I was kind of willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong and I don't think he has.

Also I don't like he way he conducts himself in the way he will talk about Liverpool so often, fair enough he used to manage them but he does bring them up a lot and thats not even mentioning the other night. Reminds me of O'Leary "When I was at, eh, Leeds..."

Martin, I saved your Lego man... please come back!

[Maradona10]

Stop moaning you idiots. Yes lets panic and sack our manager because that's always worked out well for teams that wanted to prevent relegation eh

The man has strong connections to Liverpool he was there for a long while. The LAST thing he would have wanted was the humiliation that happened last night. He would have wanted to do them over and show them he's still got it. He's probably hurting more than anyone.

To say he doesn't care and all he cares about his Liverpool is nonsense. I'm embarrassed he has even had to put out the statement to be honest.

All you moaning brummies should be ashamed.

The moaning brummies who stood on Anfield Road and sung their hearts out for AVFC, the moaning brummies who paid hundreds of pounds to watch a team with no passion or desire, to actually physically watch our manager applaud The Kop but not his OWN fans, the bottom line is this has nothing to do with his association Liverpool, it was his lack of respect to Villa fans, not only not applauding us for supporting the side on a cold winter evening and his post match comments were a disgrace, if the ticket office had informed me of our manager not minding losing to Liverpool I would not have bothered. I have spoken to a few Liverpool and even their shocked at his comments, his actions on Monday Night are inexcusable and to try and shift it to the moaning brummies to make you and Gerrard feel better then so be it! As for his statement, I'm embarrassed our manager finds a time to be humourous losing 3-0. I won't forgive or forget the images in my head of Gerrard's love affair with the Kop and showing no respect for us. However I cannot see him being removed, but the focus now should be getting behind AVFC, i for one will not cheer for Houllier or sing his name but only support the CLUB I love. Gerrard Houllier has been arrogant ever since he walked in to the club as he honestly as a huge opinion of himself, just look at the deluded fools comments about Liverpool, he bought Liverpool into the 21st Century, sorry Gerrard but have I missed something, did you win the Premier League so in essence your a failure! But Villa fans preparing banners, let's forget that please, do something constructive and read the banner on the Holte End, We are the 12th man and we have to lift our side!

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Even so they still had relative experience and internationals in midfield - we had Hogg and Clark as heart of midfield.

We had loads of internationals elsewhere on the field, I don't get your point. The two aforementioned youngsters you are making out to be "handicaps" in our side are the same youngsters who everyone has been raving about against sides such as United.

Swings and roundabouts.

Not really, Hogg and Clark have been decent at times but also poor at times, the reason the likes of Petrov are first team players and captain and Reo-Coker similar, is because they are very consistant. Even their bad games, they still don't give the ball away, usually make the right decisions and are can lead the team. That is why a lot of youngsters at clubs who are good enough are usually rotated around, play some games, not play the majority, simply because consistancy levels aren't high enough to mantain good game after good game after good game.

If you had a central midfield pairing,

Petrov, Coker, Delph, Sidwell, Bannan and Ireland (as long as DM like Petrov/Coker is fit) would be ahead of Clark and Hogg. In fact, there's a good chance Gary Gardner would be as well.

At absolute minimum, they are 6th and 7th choice. You could go as for as 8th and 9th without being unrealistic.

Of course you can't blame everything on injuries because he as a manager should still be getting the senior players to stand up and produce more of a display even if you don't win. You can't just accept lifeless performances like Liverpool, it's not good enough, but unfortunately the midfield is a massive area. Obviously games I suppose are won and lost in both penalty areas but the midfield first gives you stability both defensive and going forward, gives you that basis in which to attack and experience to not allow opposition midfielders to find room and play simple passes in behind the midfield or even lose easy balls in the middle in the first place.

The heart of the midfield is vital.

Once we get some players back, I can't see us turning it around, winning game after game after game but I guarentee more consistancy, more battle in the performances and more assured look about the team and with that, you'd expect more points. (Again, I'm not saying huge differences before some smart arse makes some comment about me thinking we'll win the league or something)

I think if you just look towards the performances like Wolves, Chelsea, Sunderland, Spurs. The first 4 games (all with Coker/Petrov or Coker/Sidwell for part of Sunderland game), okay only 4 points (tough fixtures..) but in every game, we weren't phenomenal but we certainly deserved something from every game, when we went behind or got pegged back, we showed grit and determination to fight back against some good teams, without Gabby our main threat too.

I think when you don't have these players, Petrov, Reo-Coker, both leaders...when your defending, it's almost as if the defenders can feel a sense of inevitability. There's no Reo-Coker to just break from midfield and at least move us 50 yards up the field. Or Petrov to use his body and win us a free-kick. There's no real leaders out on the field and that shows. Lose a goal and it's head down until they talk to Houllier at HT.

In fact, the last 4 games, Blackburn, Blues, Arsenal, Liverpool.....the first halfs have been pretty poor and then second half, we've come out and actually threatened and started to dominate proceedings.

Houllier really hasn't done a good job, he's got things wrong especially in recent weeks and the whole thing with Cuellar not playing is a farce and I can absolutely fully 100% understand why people would want him out but I think it's also extremely ignorant to ignore or at least believe they aren't playing some part in the poor form of Aston Villa.

Maybe he really is a shite manager, don't win in the next two games and It's probably too much of a risk to find out, however although some situations haven't been handled well, some bad selections, some decent one's as well, I think it's still pretty inconclusive to judge his managerial capabilities. A lot of factors determine a good manager and there are lots of parts that managers need to do these things. For example, changing the way a player thinks, his mentallity on and off the pitch, the way a player plays, the way a team plays, the way they condition their body, these things don't just change after a couple months. Transfers, bringing in players a manager believes fits into the team and mentallity he is trying to bring to a club. Some players bought under the old regime will be ignorant of the way the club is changing, they won't believe in the new manager, their mentality and negativity that brings can be let go in order to make sure every player is reading from the same page in the way players should conduct themselves and what they expect, No time to do that.

I shouldn't bring up past managers but the last one (a good one might I add) in his first season, went through of a spell of around 11 Premiership matches without a win. Sometimes these things happen, the manager is still only getting to know the players both on a footballing level and at also at a personal level, so sometimes early on in a reign, managers can find it tough to understand how to get the very best out of players and the best way to utilize them.

These are not excuses, these are merely things that managers have/need/want to do or whatever.

Good managers are able to buy good players, buy players right for their team, able to change a team's mentality and the way they think over time and of course bring good results.

You take a look at O'Neill and Redknapp, they are able to do that, they buy players they know, like and trust and they play a way that they trust and know and install that into players and they are good managers because they can do it. You look at Dowie, Brian Laws let's say, whatever job they seem to do, they seem to do a very poor one.

Houllier has been successful in the past in different leagues, different standards but there are also have been years when he has been not so successful which makes it such a difficult outcome to predict about how successful he can be here. We do NOT know the future, a few people will believe in Houllier, will believe in time, he can do a good job, there are also people who have set opinions that they do not believe this manager is capable of achieving success. Neither are right or wrong.

As I've stated, I believe a manager needs time because there is so much too being a manager, what we've seen so far doesn't make Houllier a good or bad manager but the job he has done with the resources he's had has been poor but the job he has done so far is just 1/10th of what's needed to be successful.

However sometimes in a managers career, just that 1/10th of management going wrong can regularly be enough for chairman to decide they do not want to see the rest of the job. However just because 1/10th's of the job hasn't been done succesfully, that doesn't mean the rest of the job can't be and that is what the board have got to decide and also Houllier has got to show enough in this just small part of the bigger plan that he deserves to have a shot at the bigger plan.

That's the key, this is only a small part of the job, however does he deserve on viewing of the small part deserve a go at the big part? It's really, really hard to say taking everything into account.

It's interesting if you actually look at O'Neill, his first 9 games, I believe we were unbeaten, that immediately shows you he deserves a chance, yet his next 11 games, we didn't manage a win. Now just for a second, imagine that was the other way round, as he shown, in the end he was a very good appointment for this football club, so just because a small part of the job wasn't done right, that doesn't all of a sudden mean that the big part of that job can't be done right, especially seeming as the current manager has had success the majority of the time.

Absolutely no clue why I've just typed all that, nothing to do with anything but I think I've basically just typed out every thought and feeling that's come into my head over the past weeks.

In short, are we by sacking him now missing out on a brighter, more positive future, changes for the better once the rest of the 9/10ths of the job kicks in, or by sacking him now, are we cutting our loses because from the 1/10ths of management we have seen, it shows the level he is at is not good enough, because of it, the only way we will go is downwards and therefore must go before it really is too late.

I'd like to think common sense would take over and say unless time is given, then you really cannot give your full judgement on a manager and his capabilities at a football club, but then I think your heart tells you no. Look at it now, I never want to see this club in this type of position, a simple goodbye and a new man would change it, easily. Without the risk of failure.

I just don't know. It's not just to be a fence sitter but I can see points for and against, either side. I find myself torn between opinions.

[mjames333]

can i change my vote? I was steaming yesterday and voted NO but obviously that's an over-reaction. More time needed, there is a bigger picture to this. I'll take 10-14th place this year if that changes being made to the side have a direction and leads to sustained success in the next few years. A couple of years ago Spurs were rock bottom of the league and look at them now.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Truth is, if he's lost the dressing room, there'd be only one way for him and the club. Now, obviously, we don't know if he has, but we can't bury our heads in the sand and not see the indications. If it's true, then I don't see how and why the players would do their best to beat West Brom and Wigan to save him, they simply wouldn't play for him.

[LancsVillan]

With Torres, Gerrard, and Carragher out, we had every chance of beating them.

With Ashley, Petrov out and an obviously unfit Gabby they would say the same and did.

I thought they were there for the taking too, but it didn't happen.

[Jez]

The statement is nothing but an attempt at fanning the flames and damage limitation

But its to late now, unless he gets us a decent run of results he's gone

Eh..

They want the statement to fan the flames?

The flames of what?

...because it's normal to release a direct statement to fans after an away loss, isn't it?

Wake up.

Eh (again)

Wake up to what?

I asked why the statement was fanning the flames, and again fanning the flames of what, fan hysteria?

That makes sense.

Of course its not normal, i wasn't asking that.

[AshVilla]

I meant the hysteria and anger around the club at the moment caused by the manager with his rediculous comments and post match antics.

He treated the match like it was some sort of testimonial, fair enough if your going back to your old club you have a glass of wine with roy hodgson after the game or people behind the scenes at anfield and discuss the "glory days" what you dont do is descend the club into a circus by doing what he did.

I heard a comment yesterday which summed it up, you dont go to work to admire the furniture you get on with your job something Houllier failed to do.

[Villarocker]

Rather than staying calm and letting Houllier continue to ruin our club...

The club was here a long time before GH, and will remain so a long time after he has left. If we lose to West Brom AND Wigan, then we can start to ask questions, but can anyone honestly say they thought the side we were forced to put our against Liverpool was anywhere near capable of beating them?

Yes, I did. I wasn't overly confident but a Liverpool team without Gerrard, Carragher and Torres isn't exactly making me shite myself either. We played their full strnegth team, including Mascherano and benayoun, last season and beat them 3-1. Our defence that day included Beye, Shorey, Cuellar and Davies. The midfield included NRC and Sidwell, who both went on to spend most of the season warming the bench. Those 6 played and we won 3-1 and they would normally be on the bench so yes I did think we could get something out of this game.

I would have been even more confident if he had played The Fonz up front alone with Gabby on the left, Albrighton on the right and a 3 man midfield of Downing, Warnock and Clark. Cuellar at RB and Young at LB. It would have been a lot sturdier and a lot more experienced IMO.

[Rob182]

can i change my vote? I was steaming yesterday and voted NO but obviously that's an over-reaction. More time needed, there is a bigger picture to this. I'll take 10-14th place this year if that changes being made to the side have a direction and leads to sustained success in the next few years. A couple of years ago Spurs were rock bottom of the league and look at them now.

I don't think you can change your vote.

It's good to see that the percentage of people who chose "YES" has gone up by 3% since last night.

[AshVilla]

can i change my vote? I was steaming yesterday and voted NO but obviously that's an over-reaction. More time needed, there is a bigger picture to this. I'll take 10-14th place this year if that changes being made to the side have a direction and leads to sustained success in the next few years. A couple of years ago Spurs were rock bottom of the league and look at them now.

I don't think you can change your vote.

It's good to see that the percentage of people who chose "YES" has gone up by 3% since last night.

Well i voted yes by accident so it balances itself out

[markavfc40]

It's good to see that the percentage of people who chose "YES" has gone up by 3% since last night.

As some one who voted no I obviously don't agree. You'd have to say though that given the time he as been here its some going to only have 30% of the fans backing according to this poll. Shows what a shit job he has done I guess.

He could obviously still turn things around but if we don't win the next couple he'll be lucky to have 10% backing.

Lets hope come the end of the month we'll be on a 4 game winning streak and the monthly poll will be opposite to this. It can still turn around and I will be more than happy to eat a large slice of humble pie if it does and I dare say many others will as we all want Aston Villa to be the best it can.

I just don't see it under Houllier though.

[Cracker1234]

As some one who voted no I obviously don't agree. You'd have to say though that given the time he as been here its some going to only have 30% of the fans backing according to this poll. Shows what a shit job he has done I guess.

I only voted no because of his actions, which I thought the poll was about.....If it was about the football side of things I would have voted yes

I think he still needs time to bring in his own players for the football side of things.....His actions however didn't go down well with me.

[fran_villa]

ffs,you either want him in or **** out.what the useless areshole said the other night is inforgivable imo,but it was only the icing on the cake for me,the way the team is responding to him is a shambles he has sucked the fight,hunger and team spirit out of our players.i know we have injurys at the moment but our so called manager,has turned one of the best defences in the league last season into mess..

[Cracker1234]

ffs,you either want him in or **** out.what the useless areshole said the other night is inforgivable imo,but it was only the icing on the cake for me,the way the team is responding to him is a shambles he has sucked the fight,hunger and team spirit out of our players.i know we have injurys at the moment but our so called manager,has turned one of the best defences in the league last season into mess..

He never turned them into a mess, they lost the last 2 games of last season and the pre season was crap and the games at the start of the season.

The defence hasn't been playing that great anyway.

[Rob182]

I appreciate a lot of people are angry and because of that, they want him out. But is that really the best idea for our club? I personally don't think so.

Bringing in another manager doesn't guarantee better results. It was agreed by a lot of VTers that Houllier was the most successful manager we could have appointed. The injuries have mainly been his doing, but he still saw that as an issue that needed to be addressed.

A new manager could do a good job. A new manager could do a bad job. A new manager could do the job just as well as Houllier and we would be in the same position and would have wasted time and disrupted the team for no reason.

IMO, the logical thing to do is to stick with Houllier and see what he can do in the Summer and in January. If we come out of this as a better team with better players then we'll all forget about what happened at Anfield.

(BTW, I'm not happy with what happened at the Liverpool game, but I'm not going to call for his head just because of a few ill-advised words and actions)

[fran_villa]

ffs,you either want him in or **** out.what the useless areshole said the other night is inforgivable imo,but it was only the icing on the cake for me,the way the team is responding to him is a shambles he has sucked the fight,hunger and team spirit out of our players.i know we have injurys at the moment but our so called manager,has turned one of the best defences in the league last season into mess..

He never turned them into a mess, they lost the last 2 games of last season and the pre season was crap and the games at the start of the season.

The defence hasn't been playing that great anyway.

for the last four games they have been utter shite,Carlos comes back on monday fit and ready to go,and that clueless prick sticks with a defence that has connceded 13 goals in there last 5 games,oh yeah his fine decision making and management style knows no bounds..

[Maradona10]

Rob182, his actions and arrogance towards our club from the day has built up from the day he joined, i was all for giving the guy a chance but i really do not want this man managing my club, he hasn't apologised, he just tried to rectify his words. But if we do not win on Saturday, he will not know what's hit him to be honest and nor will the board. I think disrespecting the fans, is something that is not acceptable even in today's corporate world of Football which he has done numerous times ever since he has walked in the door and the thing is, i could understand the arrogance if we were actually winning games, the bottom line he isn't, if we do not get anything from the next two, then the summer your waiting for maybe the preparation for the Championship.

[Cracker1234]

Yet people will argue that those same players, well apart from Luke helped get the team to 6th last season...They can defend, they're just playing shit and have been for a while.

Most if not all wants Carlos to play, that's down to Houllier, but him alone can't stop the defensive mistakes.