Milfner Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 What's your point though? I've proved that it is typical for Champions League CBs - Kompany, Ferdinand, Evans - to lose 4/10 headers. Yes, I'm pleased Vlaar wins 71% of his headers (one of the best CBs in the league for this, if not the best) but simply winning 71% of headers doesn't make you a Champions League CB. My point is that he is a shockingly bad centre half. Stats don't paint the whole picture as you like to make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walesavfc Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 The direction he heads the ball sometimes is dangerous, Needs to just get it out for a throw more instead of trying to find a man or head back into a dangerous area, he isn't that far off being a good player if he did the simple things well Hope dunne is back and Clarke can sit in front of the back 4 soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartin82 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 He'd make a decent defensive midfielder... but a partnership of him and Baker is just a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Absolutely awful this season. Nowhere what is needed, should not be in the starting X1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 He is not a centre half That's the position he's spent his career at barring his first few appearances in the first team - he played nowhere but centre half in the reserves for three seasons and he's spent the majority of his first team games at centre half. I think he was introduced into the first team as a defensive midfielder because a year or two ago he was too slight to play at centre half - he's still physically not quite big enough for me in this league, but I'm not sure he's got the burst of energy you need to be a defensive midfielder. He's a really good footballer, but maybe not got that bit of something physical you need for the top league in England. I think this season is killing him, you'd like to see young players brought through gently and learning as they go - Clark is just picking up scars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 He'd make a decent defensive midfielder... but a partnership of him and Baker is just a joke.yes I agree with that. He is a decent player but just strikes me the role you suggest would be more suited to him. A pairing of baker and Vlaar with Clark sitting in front may be the way to go. Certainly far too soon to be writing him off as he is a player of some potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) yes I agree with that. He is a decent player but just strikes me the role you suggest would be more suited to him. A pairing of baker and Vlaar with Clark sitting in front may be the way to go. Certainly far too soon to be writing him off as he is a player of some potential Given there doesn't appear to be any money available, I'd like Lambert to pair Vlaar with Baker and play Clark as the defensive midfielder. It can't be any worse than our recent defensive displays. Edited January 27, 2013 by Robbie09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Stick him in midfield And remember 23 is young for a defender, I still believe Clark will make it. Edited January 27, 2013 by AVFCforever1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 My point is that he is a shockingly bad centre half. Stats don't paint the whole picture as you like to make out. I think you are getting over-emotional after a run of bad results. The goals against Millwall weren't Clark's fault yet Clark gets the blame? Ciaren Clark is the new Barry Bannan. Bad result, but not responsible for the loss and had actually a decent game? Blame Clark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think you are getting over-emotional after a run of bad results. The goals against Millwall weren't Clark's fault yet Clark gets the blame? Ciaren Clark is the new Barry Bannan. Bad result, but not responsible for the loss and had actually a decent game? Blame Clark! Do you argue with people just for the sake of it? No one has mentioned Bannan yet you try and use that as some sort of justification for your denial of any criticism of ANY villa player. The poster is not "over emotional" as you call them (and that is borderline I suspect as to what is accepted on this forum in terms of insults) they are obviously concerned re the club and the performance of the defence in particular and Clark as one of those currently stealing a living claiming to be part of the Villa defence. Clark has been woeful at times this year as have most of the Villa defence. References to whatever little stat you may want to pull up wont get way from that fact. Clark, at times Villa's so called captain and leader on the pitch has had game after game where he has failed to do the basics of a CH and consequently put us under even more pressure. Now that may be due to the frankly wierd and ill performing tactics that the clown that is Lambert makes them play under, but Clark certainly has not helped either the club or himself by putting "in a shift" as CH. He does not deserve to be in the first team at the moment based on his performances (like a few I may add), but your desire to defend any player at any cost mentality is somewhat open for comment and very often contradiction to the points you are trying to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milfner Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think you are getting over-emotional after a run of bad results. The goals against Millwall weren't Clark's fault yet Clark gets the blame? Ciaren Clark is the new Barry Bannan. Bad result, but not responsible for the loss and had actually a decent game? Blame Clark! Don't try and tell me I'm being over-emotional because of a bad run. I've been saying it all season, check my posts if you really must. He did not have a decent game (I was there before you start). He overran the ball when at his feet, he played aimless passes, he's too slow, gets caught on heels, plays the centre mids and fullbacks into trouble with passes that he shouldn't be playing to them, he gets out-jumped, he gets out-muscled. Do you have stats for those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 The problem with Clark presently is who else (right now - match fit and available) can take his place next to Vlaar?? Clark is a promising player but has suffered from being played week in week out alongside other inexperienced defenders and midfielders. I don't recall Gary Cahill being too much better at the same age and he was playing alongside the likes of Laursen and Mellberg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sorry if I offended with my use of the phrase "over-emotional". I think "shockingly-bad" is an exaggeration. Before the bad run of results we had from Chelsea we had clean sheets against Arsenal, Stoke, Reading, Sunderland and Swansea. Clark played all those games. What I find interesting, Lichaj also played in those games, and we played a back 4 not a back 3 with Bennett and Lowton pushed on which exposes our flanks. I would use "shockingly-bad" to describe Lambert's tactics. Clark is not "great" but he's not "shockingly-bad" more like a victim at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkee Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think he was introduced into the first team as a defensive midfielder because a year or two ago he was too slight to play at centre half - he's still physically not quite big enough for me in this league, but I'm not sure he's got the burst of energy you need to be a defensive midfielder. He's a really good footballer, but maybe not got that bit of something physical you need for the top league in England. I think this season is killing him, you'd like to see young players brought through gently and learning as they go - Clark is just picking up scars.OBE - perfectly spot on. I agree completely. Needs to be stronger, imho the evolution or mutation of the positives from Clark and Baker into one footballer would create Premier league CB beast.re Clark I need to add that his positioning needs a lot of training and also he needs to be more patient because he sometimes just simply start to press leaving defensive formation and creating a huge gap behind him causing us trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Clark just hasn't progressed at all since he made his debut some 3 seasons ago. - just what are his strengths? Good in the air - not really Strong Tackler - not really Fast - No really Reading of the game - below average Passing - adequate to me he is kind of just 'there' - I don't see him doing an awful lot. Compare that to Baker, whilst its early for him - he puts in the great tackle, strong header - I just don't any outstanding qualities from Clark. Edited January 27, 2013 by smetrov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Remember him in the middle of the park against Fulham under Houllier, looked the absolute real deal; confident, knew what to do and when to do it. I ve just not seen much this season of that, I am not sure he’s what we need for who we are and where we are. Feel a less consumate player, with greater physicality and grit would be better for what we need. I just think the academy is producing players with the wrong set of qualities to make it as premiership footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpt666 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 imo clark has not been that good this season but i also believe it is down to the fact the back are far to young and inexpierienced for the premier league, when ciaran first burst onto the scene he was a bit part player who played now n then and when he did he always played well imo so really too much too soon is the reason same goes for baker aswell we really should have kept either collins or cuellar !!!! his initial promise should not be forgotten lads i think he will come good (what league we will be in by then is another matter ) unless we bring in an old head before tuesday......hangeland maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsub Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 My point is that he is a shockingly bad centre half. Stats don't paint the whole picture as you like to make out. Couldn't agree more. He's got heart & desire but sadly just isn't physically big enough. I first noticed his weakness in heading against Hereford last year when he hardly won a ball in the air & sadly he seems to have gone down hill from there. He may make a useful DCM but just isn't a PL or Championship quality CH. Not his fault, but surely Lamentable Lambert could of spotted this before selling Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Good centre halves have either pace or an imposing physical presence (great ones can have both). Clark has neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I really shouldn't feed the troll, but it's a quiet Sunday afternoon and I could do with a laugh. to be fair, you don't know what you're talking about, mate, you're just guessing. Clark wins 58% of his headers so you are precisely wrong. Clark wins a greater percentage of his headers than Rio Ferdinand and Johnny Evans of Man Utd. He wins about the same % of his headers as Vincent Kompany of Man City (59%). Stop criticising our players for things top players wouldn't be criticised for. I do know I'm afraid. You're wrong and don't understand the sport. This is evidence of that: Clark is in fact better in the air than two Champions League defenders. The ball hitting your head and going backwards towards danger because you've been pushed around again doesn't mean you've won a header. I think you'd be better off studying baseball or cricket which relies more on numbers. Or you could always try watching football instead of reading numbers about it, it's good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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