The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[TheStagMan]

16 hours ago, Zatman said:

If Hutton is considered a legend by some then so is Grealish. I dont believe either are

Jack still could be but he isnt now. I think Barry and Mellberg are probably the closest in the last 15 years 

Who considers Hutton a legend? 

[Wainy316]

6 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

If you're 54 did you get the chance to see Gary Shaw play?

Shaw was produced by our great club and was a better footballer than Jack. Also a far more effective player. Won the league and the European Cup. Also the Super Cup. PFA Young player of the year and he won the "Bravo Award" for best U23 player in Europe. He may well have won the Balon d'or if Platini hadn't been winning the French centric competition 3 years in a row.

Jack's got a long way to go to match those achievements and if he even gets close to it he certainly won't be wearing a Villa anymore. He's wonderful footballer to watch but he's not the best we've produced, and a far way from the most effective.

Just for fun:

Grealish: 95 games 15 goals

Anwar El Ghazi: 115 games 26 goals

And while I was researching I also noticed Luke Moore: 91 games 15 goals

Though fair points a more telling way of looking at his effectiveness would be our win ratios with and without him over the last 3 or 4 years.

[Stevo985]

28 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

I didn't say they were legends. That was the point, they aren't but they are still closer to it than the likes of Grealish. Behaviour is a key component of legend status, just being a bit good at football does not make Grealish a legend, in fact his behaviour makes him a bell end.

 

Leaving for an "elite" club is not the problem, it is the manner in which it was done. I am surprised people need that explaining to them.

 

I do need it explaining because I don't understand how the manner in which he left is bad. 

He stayed with Villa for longer than the vast majority of players as talented as he would, he signed a new contract to ensure we'd get more money if he did leave despite it making it harder for him to leave, he didn't kick up a fuss, he's never said anything but good things about the club, and he's left for an elite club for a record fee.

What was he meant to do differently?

[YouUnastanFren]

16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

he signed a new contract to ensure we'd get more money if he did leave despite it making it harder for him to leave

Iirc he didn't have a release clause in his previous contract so his new contract actually made it easier for him to leave as it removed NSWE's option to refuse all bids, which they surely would have taken

[Danny_Villaman84]

51 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Who considers Hutton a legend? 

definitely not! he is Cult Heroes for Birmingham City goal and did well when come on pitch but not gain A LEGEND status as he is not that great player, he is average player for us.

back to topic 

Grealish is under "Greatest Player" - definitely not Legend
or maybe Cults Heroes -
the fact is:
He is a Best Player ever play for us and maybe best player even England have this generation and era.
and Great to watch him player ever for us.
His Football talent is one of the beautiful to watch player.
AND last reason he is "Our" - as He was Villa Supporter and OUR Player, Our Youth Product, LOCAL. 

- but we will remember him bad about him as he left us and make comment about something that turn the table around by him or Media (most of Media groom him left club and he make this happen) 

Problem is cause push him go is play Champions or Europa Leagues (we cant offered him which understand - yet we knew it is we likely in Europe completion by End of the Season or Next season - he could've patient and play for us if he real loyalist and love club and don't want play any other club than Villa which i would stay regard) I don't blame him and understand yet wish he stay with us...

 and England (England other one of faeces reason to force him go top 4 clubs to get automatic starter for England even he is way better that top 4 not matter who he play for outers top 6)  I don't understand this - if he play for us to make force people will say why he is not play for England so it is could help break top 6 rules to regular player it is media will help force FA to help make England big changing and new way. Southgate force him to move Top 6 club and FA force Southgate pick Top 6 except DM players or Right back from top 6.

it would make better team to focus talent and suit tactical, mental, team regard who they play for and goal is to win Cup 

he is not Legend cos he is not win for us any trophy and he is not sent us to Europe Completion, or goal final to win cup, lots of goal or assist.

Will remember him as Cult Heroes for take us to Premiership and solo destroy Liverpool twice (FA Semi and 7-2), and Action Brummies rival fan punch him and goal, and become captain to get 10+ unlosses and winning streak. that all i can think of him. PLUS our first 100 millions record and selling our acdemy to straight to transfer i think he is one highest and record of wholes world i think. it is our Cult Heroes that all!

Edited September 7, 2021 by Danny_Villaman84

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Iirc he didn't have a release clause in his previous contract so his new contract actually made it easier for him to leave as it removed NSWE's option to refuse all bids, which they surely would have taken

I disagree. It made it easier for him to leave if a club was willing to bid 100m for him.

But 12 months ago that didn't seem very likely at all. 100m would have seemed ludicrous for Grealish. Plus if he was running down his old contract he could have gone for a lot less this summer.

The new contract basically meant he had to have an outstanding season, so good that a club would have to be willing to pay a record fee for him.

 

That's what happened. But if he wasn't quite good enough to attract Man City he'd still be here and it would be much harder for him to leave with a newer and more lucrative contract

 

That new contract has paid for itself.

[YouUnastanFren]

31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I disagree. It made it easier for him to leave if a club was willing to bid 100m for him.

But 12 months ago that didn't seem very likely at all. 100m would have seemed ludicrous for Grealish. Plus if he was running down his old contract he could have gone for a lot less this summer.

His old contract would've still had multiple years left even if he didn't sign a new one iirc. My only point is that his new contract appears to have made it possible for him to leave this summer, or at least removed the option of NSWE to decide to keep him. For all we know though, there was a release clause in that contract as well and they had no choice either way.

Edited September 7, 2021 by YouUnastanFren

[StanBalaban]

13 hours ago, DJ_Villain said:

But we arent in Europe at the moment are we? We are in the Premier League and have made improvements every year since the owners took over... and our talisman got tapped up on international duty and ditched us, and is now contractually obliged to try to beat us twice a season...

If it was just in cup competitions, and it was the luck of the draw that we ended up playing against him (like in Europe) then thats just bad luck... but to willingly give up our clubs captaincy, and want to go to another club in the same country and still spit this bullshit mantra of "Im Villa through and through"?

Im not buying it... No Villa fan would ever willingly want to do that... I've said it before and I will say it again... I am a Villa fan... Not a football fan, not an England fan... I have no love for any other team... I'd rather win a throw in for Villa than any number of medals for any other English club...

If his contract had run out and he was being forced out by management even though he wanted to stay (like Albrighton and Carew), I would have wished him well

If his contract was running out and he went abroad (like Mellberg), I would have wished him well...

If injury or sickness stopped his career and he had to retire (like Laursen and Petrov), I would have wished him well...

Grealish has blotted his copy book.... and he wont care what we think because he gets to win his trophies... Bully for him...
 

But as soon as a journalist gives him short shrift and ruffles his feathers, he didnt like it one bit...
He doesnt love or support our club... He just didnt want to have bad publicity for ditching us... So he tried to butter us up with "See you soons", "Up the Villas" and "Villa till I dies" etc

I seem to recall Joe Lolley banging in goals against us whilst at Forest, and he used to post on here. Are we saying he's not a Villa fan?

[PaulC]

8 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

 

 

If you're 54 did you get the chance to see Gary Shaw play?

Shaw was produced by our great club and was a better footballer than Jack. Also a far more effective player. Won the league and the European Cup. Also the Super Cup. PFA Young player of the year and he won the "Bravo Award" for best U23 player in Europe. He may well have won the Balon d'or if Platini hadn't been winning the French centric competition 3 years in a row.

Jack's got a long way to go to match those achievements and if he even gets close to it he certainly won't be wearing a Villa anymore. He's wonderful footballer to watch but he's not the best we've produced, and a far way from the most effective.

Just for fun:

Grealish: 95 games 15 goals

Anwar El Ghazi: 115 games 26 goals

And while I was researching I also noticed Luke Moore: 91 games 15 goals

 

 

 

Shaw and Grealish are totally different players really. Shaw had a great touch and was a great finisher. Grealish should get more goals but hes always trying to create rather than score for himself. 

[Zatman]

14 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

I seem to recall Joe Lolley banging in goals against us whilst at Forest, and he used to post on here. Are we saying he's not a Villa fan?

He celebrated too

[StanBalaban]

7 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He celebrated too

He did indeed. Very few of us can put ourselves in their shoes where, as a fan, you have the ability to either play for, or against, the team you love. The personal victory in one's career as a professional footballer is very different to any of us in our armchairs saying that they couldn't do the same.

Was Dean Smith not a Villa fan when Brentford tonked us and played a part in not getting back to the Premier League?   

[Stevo985]

56 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

I seem to recall Joe Lolley banging in goals against us whilst at Forest, and he used to post on here. Are we saying he's not a Villa fan?

 

42 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He celebrated too

 

30 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

He did indeed. Very few of us can put ourselves in their shoes where, as a fan, you have the ability to either play for, or against, the team you love. The personal victory in one's career as a professional footballer is very different to any of us in our armchairs saying that they couldn't do the same.

Was Dean Smith not a Villa fan when Brentford tonked us and played a part in not getting back to the Premier League?   

It's almost as if DJVillan is talking absolute nonsense  

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, YouUnastanFren said:

His old contract would've still had multiple years left even if he didn't sign a new one iirc. My only point is that his new contract appears to have made it possible for him to leave this summer, or at least removed the option of NSWE to decide to keep him. For all we know though, there was a release clause in that contract as well and they had no choice either way.

Yes but it would have less years on it and a smaller wage, making it easier to leave.

The only reason it was easy to leave this summer is because he's so **** good that an elite team was willing to pay a staggering amount of money for him

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Yes but it would have less years on it and a smaller wage, making it easier to leave.

The only reason it was easy to leave this summer is because he's so **** good that an elite team was willing to pay a staggering amount of money for him

I'm not sure this part is true (we could have just refused offers), but it would've guaranteed that he left for an amount which is below what we got for him - albeit maybe 2 years down the line.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

 

 

It's almost as if DJVillan is talking absolute nonsense  

People are allowed to have different ideas of footballing loyalty and the disconnect between how they talk about it and act.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

People are allowed to have different ideas of footballing loyalty and the disconnect between how they talk about it and act.

I know.

[Sam-AVFC]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yes but it would have less years on it and a smaller wage, making it easier to leave.

The only reason it was easy to leave this summer is because he's so **** good that an elite team was willing to pay a staggering amount of money for him

Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though?

This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though?

This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense.

He would have had less time left on his contract, and he would have been on less wages. 

This means his contract is worth less, so in theory should cost less to buy out. Which is what a transfer fee essentially is. This is widely known that the longer left on your contract, the more it costs to buy a player.

It also makes a smaller increase in wages from other clubs more attractive to the player because he's earning less here.

it also pressurises the selling club more into considering a sale because there's less time left on the contract. If we turned down an offer this summer then suddenly next year he's got 2 years left and the fee you'd receive is even less if he's not signing a new contract then.

 

Yes, obviously the release clause has made it easier for him to leave BECAUSE a club was willing to pay £100m for him. But last summer that sort of a clause would have seemed out of reach for clubs to pay. he simply wasn't worth it. In fact there were people HOPING we had put a release clause in to guarantee us that sort of money (I fundamentally disagree with that opinion but it happened)

So yes because the clause was triggered, it was easy for him to leave. But that has only happened because he had a fantastic season and has turned himself into the superstar of English football. At the time he signed that contract, it was making it harder for him to leave the club.
If he REALLY wanted out as much as people say he did, why would he sign a new contract? It makes no sense. Even with the release clause, the thought of anyone paying £100m last year for him was a massive longshot. 

 

He signed the deal because he was happy here. He was still happy here. He's left because he got an amazing offer from one of the best teams in the world that we have absolutely no hope of ever matching.
Without that clause, they would have still come calling. yes we may have been able to refuse the bid, but if Jack really wanted to leave he could probably have made it happen and I bet we wouldn't be getting 100m for him

That contract has paid for itself

[tomav84]

15 hours ago, Xela said:

Of course he'll score. He's a professional footballer and winning the league. That doesn't mean he's not a Villa fan? 

His goal wouldn't be the reason we went down... it would be the previous 37 games that got us to that point. 

You're worrying about a scenario that will never likely happen. 

he might have been a villa fan once, when he was a kid. but he's not anymore. very seldom does a professional footballer continue to properly support a club whilst they are playing. they should just admit it rather than continue to claim to be a fan. if anyone thinks he walks around the house in a villa top or even watches our games anymore is deluded.

let me remind you that JT couldn't bear to play against chelsea...just couldn't do it. many PL clubs would've been happy to sign him but he could not have played against them. he dropped down to the championship instead. that's probably the only modern day exception to the rule i can think of.

[YouUnastanFren]

9 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though?

This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense.

If the owners decided to just say no (like Levy) then he wouldn't be able to leave. Which is my entire point.

Afaik a player under 28 can't buy themselves out of a contract within 3 years of signing it according to the Webster ruling. So NSWE could have just said no to a £200m bid if they'd wanted.