Global Warming

[bobzy]

30 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

So a mix of things there.

Some good advice for everyone like walking or using public transport more. I've never owned a car and have always walked mainly to get from a to b or use public transport. Don't be as wasteful with your energy consumption, so turning off lights, not filling a kettle too much to make a cup of tea. All very good sensible advice.

Then there's choices with consequences, eating less meat harms farmers livelihoods, "spending less" (buying less or flying less) also would impact peoples jobs and the economy (people spending less is what causes recessions). 

Then there's costly upfront changes you can make (getting a new electric car, home battery, switching a heating system from gas) which are good to do. 

Thankfully, people won’t need to worry about livelihoods when the World is burning up. Phew!

[sidcow]

3 minutes ago, picicata said:

 Personally, I don't eat many of the meat alternatives as they are so processed. 

I've been wondering about this. 

Just because things are plant based doesn’t automatically make them healthy though you would assume so. 

However I DO love some good processed shit so I would assume plant based processed shit is probably still better than meat based processed shit. 

[sidcow]

Meanwhile Rhodes burns. Tourists fleeing hotels. TUI and Jet2 cancelling flights. 

Nothing to see here. 

[picicata]

6 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I've been wondering about this. 

Just because things are plant based doesn’t automatically make them healthy though you would assume so. 

However I DO love some good processed shit so I would assume plant based processed shit is probably still better than meat based processed shit. 

It's quite possible to be a very unhealthy, junk food vegan!

As it's the preserving additives that are the real nasties in processed food I would guess that processed meat is worse but neither are good.

Have a veg curry/ Bolognese instead. You'll be surprised how quickly you don't miss either meat or meat alternative

[Captain_Townsend]

It isn't easy on the mental health. The most frustrating thing for me is western societies seem to be embracing right wing populism with gusto at precisely the moment we should have been tackling the environment as a priority: Brexit in 2016, Trump 2016 being prime examples. All that wasted energy on idiotic processes and culture wars while we had a chance to address an existential crisis for our species.

[limpid]

15 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Meanwhile Rhodes burns. Tourists fleeing hotels. TUI and Jet2 cancelling flights. 

Nothing to see here. 

I wonder if those airlines will return some of the massive government subsidies given to their industry to keep polluting.

[blandy]

14 minutes ago, limpid said:

I wonder if those airlines will return some of the massive government subsidies given to their industry to keep polluting.

They are not subsidised as such, to be pedantic. They benefit from the same exemptions shared by all forms of passenger transport, by being zero rated for VAT.  There are taxes unique to aviation which are levied. This isn’t a comment on right or wrong policy, just on the classification of tax exemption as “subsidy”.  Assuming that’s what you were alluding to.

[CVByrne]

51 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Farmers can grow crops instead of grazing sheep or cows. It's a much better use of land. If there is more demand for cereal crops or legumes because people are eating more of them prices for those crops rise. If people eat less meat then farmers earn less from meat. 

A field full of crops absorbs CO2.. A field full of animals expels CO2. 

I will say this is one sacrifice I'm not willing to make though I don't actually eat that much meat anyway.  I do eat it but in small portions. I've been experimenting with plant based alternatives but I just don't think they are there yet. 

Definitely agree here, if less meat is consumed farmers will adapt and change to crops. People making the decision to eat less meat is one of the trade offs if people love meat. It takes time to transition farming so the change will be slower 

[limpid]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

They are not subsidised as such, to be pedantic. They benefit from the same exemptions shared by all forms of passenger transport, by being zero rated for VAT.  There are taxes unique to aviation which are levied. This isn’t a comment on right or wrong policy, just on the classification of tax exemption as “subsidy”.  Assuming that’s what you were alluding to.

But as they provide a private, not public service they shouldn't have access to that exemption. Like fuel for taxis and ferries. Therefore it's a subsidy.

[blandy]

Just now, limpid said:

But as they provide a private, not public service they shouldn't have access to that exemption. Like fuel for taxis and ferries. Therefore it's a subsidy.

Train companies are private

[blandy]

To get back more to climate change, taxation and tax exemptions and subsidies (actually the state paying money, rather than not deducting it) need to be completely revamped, both because fossil fuels generate so much tax income, which will disappear over time and will need to be replaced, and because behavioural changes need to be encouraged.

[CVByrne]

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

To get back more to climate change, taxation and tax exemptions and subsidies (actually the state paying money, rather than not deducting it) need to be completely revamped, both because fossil fuels generate so much tax income, which will disappear over time and will need to be replaced, and because behavioural changes need to be encouraged.

This is the way to do it. To use taxation to incentivise companies and industries to make the changes that reduce carbon emissions 

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, picicata said:

Yep, meat alternatives are probably not yet at a point where it could replace meat for those who don't want to go veg/ vegan but want to do more to help the environment. However, the more people choosing to go sans meat, at least in part, the more money, scientific endeavour and research will go into producing alternatives. Even in the last few years it has become much better. Personally, I don't eat many of the meat alternatives as they are so processed.

I managed to convince two of my friends to drop their meat eating in half by suggesting they spend the same amount of money on half the amount of meat, this buying higher quality and less processed crap. It's a step

the game changer will be when this synthetic meat becomes more common (and i think it will be in our lifetime) so i can still eat a steak, it's just been replicated from an original steak. so no additional animals have to die, just the original one to make the steak that all the others are made from

[sidcow]

24 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

the game changer will be when this synthetic meat becomes more common (and i think it will be in our lifetime) so i can still eat a steak, it's just been replicated from an original steak. so no additional animals have to die, just the original one to make the steak that all the others are made from

Remember that story years ago that KFC couldn't use "chicken" in their name because their chicken wasn't real meat and was grown. 

How the world is changing. That will probably be seen as a positive story now

[foreveryoung]

53 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

the game changer will be when this synthetic meat becomes more common (and i think it will be in our lifetime) so i can still eat a steak, it's just been replicated from an original steak. so no additional animals have to die, just the original one to make the steak that all the others are made from

So what we gonna do with the cows. They produce methane which counts towards I think 14.5% of the green house gases. 

[sne]

3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So what we gonna do with the cows. They produce methane which counts towards I think 14.5% of the green house gases. 

Breed less of them I would guess.

[sidcow]

14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So what we gonna do with the cows. They produce methane which counts towards I think 14.5% of the green house gases. 

That's the whole point. You don't need to breed huge herds of cows anymore. 

[sidcow]

I guess the other advantage of cutting down on meat is what we do the eat we can produce domestically instead of shipping it in diesel powered ships half way round the world in power sapping refrigerated containers. 

[ROTTERDAM1982]

Shipping contributes 2% towards global warming. Its actually better for the environment to have lamb from Wales than to have Avocados from California

[sne]

Clothing industry and the way people think about clothes is also an area where a lot can be done. Takes a lot of energy and especially water to produce clothes. And by the looks of it a large part is discarded before it is even used.

Tragic report with a long read in link.

Quote

Take-Back Trickery

An investigation into clothing take-back schemes
July 2023

 

Between August 2022 and July 2023, Changing Markets tracked 21 items from 10 fashion brands through their take-back schemes. Garments were donated to H&M, Zara, C&A, Primark, Nike, The North Face, Uniqlo and M&S stores in Belgium, France, Germany and the UK, or posted them to a Boohoo scheme.

https://changingmarkets.org/take-back-trickery/