LondonLax Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 6 hours ago, PaulC said: One question is that is there a finite amount of lithium and once that runs out what do we do? Sodium ion batteries are an option and there are other battery materials. It’s likely lithium batteries will be used for certain tasks where size is the biggest constraint and other cheaper more abundant materials would be used for things like grid storage at solar plants etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: Only when they're given sufficient motivation by government regulation, of course. How many decades has the oil spent pumping billions into fighting against green energy, and pushing the blame onto anybody but themselves? Amuse yourself by recalling that BP popularised the term "carbon footprint". The free market will aim for maximum profit for minimum effort, humanity be damned. Which takes us back to the original problem really; most governments for decades have been willing to play a game of chicken, with their lightweight regulation, kicking environment concerns into the long grass for generations, chasing a buck today. All of the great things the world has created and innovated came from people and companies not Governments. The Car, The Fridge, The Internet, Planes, Vaccines, Computers. Look at all the companies now trying to focus their talent on solving climate change by producing green energy, battery technology and carbon trapping. Yes companies do bad things to, but that's because humanity does those things as a species. Companies are just collections of people. But Companies and people do far more good than bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 8 hours ago, villa89 said: We figure out how to recycle batteries more efficiently. This Apple are recycling the entire iPhone by 2025 for example. We won't run out of raw materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 8 hours ago, PaulC said: Yes the demand for it is going to increase dramatically. Anyway we are getting to the stage its going to be too late to do much about saving our planet. I fear for future generations. I don't fear for the future. I think the challenge for humanity will drive the next big technology leap on green energy. That leap will bring the biggest leap forward for global poverty especially in Africa. Once solar power is so efficient and cheap to make people can power their own homes. We'll give electricity to all those who don't have it. Once it's cheap, green and abundant we can grow food with UV lights anywhere we want. We can desalinate water. We can carbon trap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2023 11 hours ago, villa89 said: Yet China will continue to pump out emissions in record numbers and keep burning coal as long as possible. Pollution is the national sport. China is spending more on renewable energy than any other nation on earth. Will shortly zoom past The UK as the biggest user of wind turbines as our own world leading initiative falters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, PaulC said: One question is that is there a finite amount of lithium and once that runs out what do we do? 1) Batteries can now use half the lithium they used to so each recycled battery can make 2 - 3 times the equivalent battery power. And the ratio is increasing. Apple already say after next year they will never need to use new mined lithium, their battery recycling facility (fully automated will provide every ounce of lithium they will ever need) 2) Lithium is already being replaced. Loads of new battery tech is available now such as sodium ion. Being new tech they're barely developed yet and will get better and better. Lithium is already developed to pretty much its max. 3) there are loads of new lithium sources being discovered all the time. This theory that there isn't enough in the world is probably just bunk anyway. Edited July 18, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chindie said: We need to find something better than lithium for batteries. The independent chap that invented the lithium ion battery was working on glass batteries. We might have had alternatives decades ago, but Shell and co thought we needed bio diesel, algae diesel and trash diesel first. Obviously they've all got the same climate changing properties and were dead ends before any research had started, so that was a waste of resources, and still no clean electrolyte - Golly. Back to the pumps with you, Mugs. Edited July 18, 2023 by Xann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 5 hours ago, CVByrne said: I don't fear for the future. I think the challenge for humanity will drive the next big technology leap on green energy. That leap will bring the biggest leap forward for global poverty especially in Africa. Once solar power is so efficient and cheap to make people can power their own homes. We'll give electricity to all those who don't have it. Once it's cheap, green and abundant we can grow food with UV lights anywhere we want. We can desalinate water. We can carbon trap. Nothing will ever be cheap in this world, even if its Cheap to make, we will always be charged a premium for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 36 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Nothing will ever be cheap in this world, even if its Cheap to make, we will always be charged a premium for it. Price is just information about the scarcity of something. If we make highly efficient solar panels for significantly less than they cost to make today. Then that makes them less scarce and more people and countries have access to them. This will be a significantly good thing for the poorest countries in particular and in clean energy as a whole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) The question which enthralls me, is if cold fusion became a reality, would humanity's access to infinite cheap energy be a good thing, or would it be a disaster for the planet? I suspect that it would allow our species to ravage the planet at an even greater rate. Edited July 18, 2023 by limpid fixed embed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Cheery message from NASA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Bought this from a catalogue clearance shop about 25 years ago. It recharges bog standard batteries, the supposedly non rechargeable type. Not PP3 but the barrel cells, AAA through D. There's caveats. It's a bit like tending a fire. You don't let it go out completely and you can get it going again, and like other rechargeables potency is lost over time. Lobbying saw this technology mostly become history. It really has taken decades of muggings to get us where we are today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 14 hours ago, sne said: Cheery message from NASA Well good, cos this summer is cold, wet and generally shit! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Xann said: I don't get it I should watch the video above I suppose Edited July 20, 2023 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 6 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: Ok fair enough point but nobody is really talking about excess deaths due to heat in Europe as one of the major issues of climate change. The major issues are more rising sea levels, loss of biodiversity, drought and the impact of climate change on forced migration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Ok fair enough point but nobody is really talking about excess deaths due to heat in Europe as one of the major issues of climate change. The major issues are more rising sea levels, loss of biodiversity, drought and the impact of climate change on forced migration. I think someone in the thread mentioned 6000 excess deaths in Europe. I think Lomborg is an economist, who is known to have made the case that the money would be better spent on humanitarian causes for problems in the here and now, like Tuberculosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 20, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 20, 2023 51 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I think someone in the thread mentioned 6000 excess deaths in Europe. I'm sure I saw 68,000 mentioned somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: I'm sure I saw 68,000 mentioned somewhere. I thought my figure sounded rather too low to be statistically significant. I think it might have been mentioned in the weather thread! Thanks! Edit: The Lancet has 200k + for deaths across Europe through cold. Edited July 20, 2023 by MakemineVanilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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