foreveryoung Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, sidcow said: I think you are inherently wrong in that. EV's are pretty expensive in the main. I DO think people are more interested in saving the planted, plus many just like gadgets, and some like the accelleration. Most EV's will destroy similar priced and significantly more expensive petrol cars in a race. Not my thing but some love all that. This was from a survey carried out by the brands. People are brain washed most are buying to save the planet, I rarely meet anyone who buy for this reason, most buy, as you have said, for the speed, gadgets, tax saving. As for the expense, generally people don't buy outright these days, an the majority of premium EVs are actually company cars. They also might be quicker acceleration say to 60-80mph, but the equivalent fuelled car would catch it and probably go past after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 13, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: This was from a survey carried out by the brands. People are brain washed most are buying to save the planet, I rarely meet anyone who buy for this reason, most buy, as you have said, for the speed, gadgets, tax saving. As for the expense, generally people don't buy outright these days, an the majority of premium EVs are actually company cars. They also might be quicker acceleration say to 60-80mph, but the equivalent fuelled car would catch it and probably go past after that. Well I want an electric vehicle to save the planet, but they are SO much more expensive than a petrol car that I just can't justify it currently. I definitely will next time though. The biggest EV sales are amongst Guardian reading Londoners. Edited January 13, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, sidcow said: I think you are inherently wrong in that. EV's are pretty expensive in the main. I DO think people are more interested in saving the planet, plus many just like gadgets, and some like the acceleration. Most EV's will destroy similar priced and significantly more expensive petrol cars in a race. Not my thing but some love all that. I think many people might claim they want to save the planet, while buying a tesla for their 5 bedroom house with 3 bathrooms and planning an all inclusive holiday in Tenerife. It's a bit of a slogan 'Saving the planet' You are hardly saving the planet by buying a £30-80k car. I'd wager very few people who actually do something proactive to protect the environment drive electric cars. I'm not against EV, I hope I'll own one when they become cheaper and have a greater range, but no one is saving the planet by owning a Tesla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 13, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I think many people might claim they want to save the planet, while buying a tesla for their 5 bedroom house with 3 bathrooms and planning an all inclusive holiday in Tenerife. It's a bit of a slogan 'Saving the planet' You are hardly saving the planet by buying a £30-80k car. I'd wager very few people who actually do something proactive to protect the environment drive electric cars. I'm not against EV, I hope I'll own one when they become cheaper and have a greater range, but no one is saving the planet by owning a Tesla. I mean, OK. I think you'll struggle to find any serious environmentalist who will say anything other than transitioning from ICE to EV's is anything other than a good thing from the planet. Yes more can be done if you want to like like a hermit but you are definitely doing something positive. Life is going to go on with or without everyone owning a car (but probably for a bit longer if those cars are EV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, sidcow said: I mean, OK. I think you'll struggle to find any serious environmentalist who will say anything other than transitioning from ICE to EV's is anything other than a good thing from the planet. Yes more can be done if you want to like like a hermit but you are definitely doing something positive. Life is going to go on with or without everyone owning a car (but probably for a bit longer if those cars are EV) You don't have to live like a hermit to be environmentally conscious. But owning a £50k electric car is likely to be far on the list of things anyone can do to protect the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2023 A successful future isn't a better version of now, it's not replacing all of the cars with ones that are less harmful to the environment, it's about ensuring that the vast majority of people live within walking distance of the places they work or are working from home, it's about mass public transit in linear cities. Electric cars might well be expensive and that's okay, the successful model is to have hardly any of them. Our more pressing problem is that our current economic model is not compatible with our survival and our current economic model is the absolute power in our societies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid4ever Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 59 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: People are brain washed most are buying to save the planet, I rarely meet anyone who buy for this reason, most buy, as you have said, for the speed, gadgets, tax saving. As for the expense, generally people don't buy outright these days, an the majority of premium EVs are actually company cars. I just changed my company car to an EV for purely the reason in bold above, gone from paying 29% BIK to 2%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2023 16 hours ago, villakram said: There are significant issues with the 2022 number due to its proximity to airplane activity on that particular day at that particular time No, there aren't. The temperature sensors are not right next to the aircraft operating area(s). A significant number of weather sensors are located on airfields, for obvious reasons, but they are positioned away from the aircraft activity*, because, well, if they weren't, you'd get false wind readings, false temperatures and so on. It matters to aviation because of safety - cross wind limits on take off and landing, for example. Max fuel loads vary with temperature (fuel expands when it's warmer. Air is less dense when it's warmer, so lift is lower, jet engine power is lower). *I've edited this to be ultra clear - the weather sensors are not miles away from where aircraft are/go, but they are not positioned where the aircraft start up and sit with engines idling etc. They need to be able to measure runway cross-winds (as I wrote above) and temperature, but they're absolutely not placed next to or behind where aircraft sit with their engines running, for example. 15 hours ago, Davkaus said: The concrete jungle of rural Lincolnshire? RAF Coningsby. Not itself rural. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 You can actually subscribe to an EV at a company called INTO: a Fiat 500 costs £529/mth which includes servicing, insurance and charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 13, 2023 Administrator Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: This was from a survey carried out by the brands. Can you link this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 44 minutes ago, limpid said: Can you link this please? I think he's referencing the Autovia Driver Power Shopper survey, which asks up to 60,000 people why they bought their car in the past two years. I can't find a link to the raw data, but there's loads of websites referencing it in Dec 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 13, 2023 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2023 One thing that will be interesting about Tesla's is that according to Tesla they have an operating lifespan that will be 25 years or so. I'd guess that if you're driving your Tesla for 25 years, you're making more of a difference, there's an enormous amount of energy expended in manufacturing the car in the first place and destroying it at the end of it's life, but I'd be astonished if we don't see Tesla drivers changing their cars every three years and the market for ten year old second hand Tesla's is a mystery to me. One of the big things that I suspect we need to change in terms of car use is the idea that a car should be with you for a couple of years before you get a new, more attractive model - don't we need to start encouraging cars for life and reducing the numbers of new cars we produce? I don't know, but that seems intuitively something that's right to me. It's obviously in competition against the improvements in efficiency in a new car and I'm not sure how those numbers stack up, but is the model of new car, new car, new car not in itself something that we need to look at changing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 3 hours ago, foreveryoung said: This was from a survey carried out by the brands. People are brain washed most are buying to save the planet, I rarely meet anyone who buy for this reason, most buy, as you have said, for the speed, gadgets, tax saving. As for the expense, generally people don't buy outright these days, an the majority of premium EVs are actually company cars. They also might be quicker acceleration say to 60-80mph, but the equivalent fuelled car would catch it and probably go past after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, bobzy said: Simply put, they are generally slower top speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, limpid said: Can you link this please? It was in a Email from work so can't really send it on sorry mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Simply put, they are generally slower top speed. Is there ever any need to be going faster than 80mph?! (The answer is no, by the way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, bobzy said: Is there ever any need to be going faster than 80mph?! (The answer is no, by the way) Okay Miss daisy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, sidcow said: I mean, OK. I think you'll struggle to find any serious environmentalist who will say anything other than transitioning from ICE to EV's is anything other than a good thing from the planet. Yes more can be done if you want to like like a hermit but you are definitely doing something positive. Life is going to go on with or without everyone owning a car (but probably for a bit longer if those cars are EV) A serious environmentalist will be advocating for giving up private vehicle ownership all together, but we all make our choices. Anyway, an EV is more expensive up front but they work out cheaper over the time you have them because the running costs are so much lower. Not just the fuel saving, they also have lower service/maintenance costs. Edited January 13, 2023 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, LondonLax said: A series environmentalist will be advocating for giving up private vehicle ownership all together, but we all make our choices. Anyway, an EV is more expensive up front but they work out cheaper over the time you have them because the running costs are so much lower. Not just the fuel saving, they also have lower service/maintenance costs. Average 65p a KW if not charged at home, that's gonna take sometime to get the premium back you pay for an EV. Although I'm sounding a bit negative, I do personally love them, the cars I have used from work anyway (Mercedes). My company car EV is still on order, should have had Feb now gone to April. Would I buy one as a private customer, I doubt it, a premium EV is far too expensive at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 3 hours ago, blandy said: No, there aren't. The temperature sensors are not right next to the aircraft operating area(s). A significant number of weather sensors are located on airfields, for obvious reasons, but they are positioned away from the aircraft activity*, because, well, if they weren't, you'd get false wind readings, false temperatures and so on. It matters to aviation because of safety - cross wind limits on take off and landing, for example. Max fuel loads vary with temperature (fuel expands when it's warmer. Air is less dense when it's warmer, so lift is lower, jet engine power is lower). *I've edited this to be ultra clear - the weather sensors are not miles away from where aircraft are/go, but they are not positioned where the aircraft start up and sit with engines idling etc. They need to be able to measure runway cross-winds (as I wrote above) and temperature, but they're absolutely not placed next to or behind where aircraft sit with their engines running, for example. RAF Coningsby. Not itself rural. If you can find an image of exactly where this station lies that would be great. It is well known over here, for example, that the location that sensors have been located (for multiple decades) have changed drastically, with improper positioning of weather stations in relation to structures being a regular occurrence over time as we humans have continued to concrete over everything and build housing everywhere. The data on that day shows minute scale behavior that looks anomalous. E.g., see that last couple of paragraphs in the following article and the rather unsatisfactory response of the MET service person. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/weather/topstories/met-office-responds-to-doubts-over-hottest-uk-temperature-being-recorded-at-lincolnshire-raf-base/ar-AA14Em1k "That sort of rise can reportedly be caused by sunlight breaking through clouds, though the article insists that July 19 was "more or less cloudless" around 3pm. The Met Office spokeswoman said that there was "some thin cloud" around the county through the afternoon, with a south-south-westerly wind of around 16mph (14 knots) through the day." Maybe it was clouds, but I would say that the specific number is in doubt. The broader point about multiple stations measuring 40C is probably valid and I would bet that one of those stations has a more reliable dataset. Just details in the larger scheme of things, but this is an important detail, when it comes to things climate related and doing a scientific measurement correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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