News story of the day

[bickster]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I would have thought there would have to be some sort of intent. Accidents happen in a dangerous sports.

 

The legal definition of manslaughter in the UK is unlawfully killing someone without intent (or malice a forethought as it used to be described). To put it another way, if there was intent, the charge would be murder.

[Rugeley Villa]

A blade to someone’s neck with force is pretty horrific. Not sure how the alleged person can dress that up, I mean what did he expect to happen. 

[StefanAVFC]

Seeing the video, it looks dodgy as ****. It's like a roundhouse kick to the head. I presumed he was on the floor and the bloke skated over here.

[foreveryoung]

10 hours ago, bickster said:

The legal definition of manslaughter in the UK is unlawfully killing someone without intent (or malice a forethought as it used to be described). To put it another way, if there was intent, the charge would be murder.

I agree, but an accident is not manslaughter, there needs to be a bit more to it.  You can have accident in your car and kill someone. Your not going to be arrested for manslaughter, unless you drove without due care, or speeding etc.

[Genie]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Seeing the video, it looks dodgy as ****. It's like a roundhouse kick to the head. I presumed he was on the floor and the bloke skated over here.

It seems comparable to driving like a prick. Whilst not intentionally intending to run that old lady over and kill her, you were irresponsible enough to cause it to happen.

[mjmooney]

I've never played (and don't normally watch) ice hockey, but having seen it, I don't see how you could describe that as accidental. He launched himself feet first at head height. It would be dangerous enough in football (and an instant red card), but with blades on your feet, it's psychopathic. 

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I agree, but an accident is not manslaughter, there needs to be a bit more to it.  You can have accident in your car and kill someone. Your not going to be arrested for manslaughter, unless you drove without due care, or speeding etc.

which is the motoring equivalent of manslaughter

in this instance, you could have lifted your leg higher, you didn't therefore were negligent. It killed someone, ergo manslaughter.

[Wainy316]

I know nothing about hockey but I've read that he's a bit of nasty (Roy Keane esque) player.

I view it as an equivalent to 'leaving one on em' in football.  Unfortunately what you're effectively leaving on them in this case is a Hattori Hanzo sword attached to your feet.

[Genie]

He’s sort of done this, but with a blade attached to his foot

Just rewatched the video, it looks like a very deliberate attempt to cause harm. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Genie

[Stevo985]

My reaction when I saw the footage was that the guy had been slightly checked and so lost his balance, hence why his foot went in the air.

I'm not sure the quality of the footage I've seen is good enough to determine if that's true or not, but that was my reaction.

If they can prove that he raised his leg intentionally then he could be in trouble. If they can't prove that then I can't see how he can be found to be at any sort of fault

 

 

 

PS something like this has happened before. If you have a strong stomach look up Clint Malarchuk's injury. He survived a very similar incident. But the footage is horrifying. 

[Stevo985]

13 hours ago, bickster said:

The legal definition of manslaughter in the UK is unlawfully killing someone without intent (or malice a forethought as it used to be described). To put it another way, if there was intent, the charge would be murder.

Surely the intent in question here is whether he intended to kick him or not.

It would only be the intention to kill that would make it murder. 

[Tegis]

I want to leave my opinion on it as an ex player, but I really really don't want to watch it

[Genie]

51 minutes ago, Tegis said:

I want to leave my opinion on it as an ex player, but I really really don't want to watch it

Someone on Twitter has now done a VAR style slow mo that rolls the footage forward and backwards (no blood so it’s not actually that bad)

Edited November 16, 2023 by Genie

[bickster]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Surely the intent in question here is whether he intended to kick him or not.

It would only be the intention to kill that would make it murder. 

Not really, there's involuntary manslaughter where the defendant didn't intend to kill or cause harm but their actions were illegal and dangerous and did result in death. I'm not saying that is the case here, in fact I think it'll be a case that is absolutely impossible to prove

[chrisp65]

There’s a murder case at the moment where some scumbag stole a van and drove it at speed at the owner who was blocking the road.

One side says clear murder, the defendant says he drove at speed to scare the guy in to jumping out of his way.

I suspect there’s a significant chance he could get away with that.

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, Tegis said:

I want to leave my opinion on it as an ex player, but I really really don't want to watch it

For a moment, it looks like it wasn't too bad, as (with a bit of assistance) he was able to skate off the ice. Then you see that the front of his jersey is already (after only a matter of moments) soaked in blood, and you realise how fast it must be pumping out. 

[Tegis]

3 hours ago, mjmooney said:

For a moment, it looks like it wasn't too bad, as (with a bit of assistance) he was able to skate off the ice. Then you see that the front of his jersey is already (after only a matter of moments) soaked in blood, and you realise how fast it must be pumping out. 

Watched the impact.

He is lining him up for a hit, no question. Then all hell breaks loose and everything looks odd.

In his defense. It looks like when he brushes by the other defender his leg whips up in a very strange snappy move, it almost looks to fast to be deliberate. Especially as he is in a turning motion which puts a lot of force on the thigh-muscles. It would be difficult to raise one leg mid turn. But maybe I'm seeing that because I want it to be an accident?

You can very easily see what you want in that situation. I can see deliberate as well. Horrible.

For reference regarding the forces involved, when you have a bad turn for what ever reason, ending up very arse over tit is an easy thing.

 

[Stevo985]

6 hours ago, bickster said:

Not really, there's involuntary manslaughter where the defendant didn't intend to kill or cause harm but their actions were illegal and dangerous and did result in death. I'm not saying that is the case here, in fact I think it'll be a case that is absolutely impossible to prove

Yeah but what I'm trying to say is your definition of manslaughter says "without intent". The intent in that context isn't intent to do any harm, it's intent to kill. If I push someone over and they bang their head and die I could be done for manslaughter, but it's manslaughter because I didn't intend to kill. I did intend to do some harm (push someone over).

The intent that @foreveryoung is talking about in the OP you replied to was referring to whether the player in question intended to do any harm to Johnson at all, that's the distinction I'm trying to make.

 

If the player intended to kick Johnson with his skate (i.e. do some sort of harm) then manslaughter is a real possibility. If it was a complete accident that his skate hit him then it can't be manslaughter. That's what I was trying to say.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Stevo985

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah but what I'm trying to say is your definition of manslaughter says "without intent". The intent in that context isn't intent to do any harm, it's intent to kill. If I push someone over and they bang their head and die I could be done for manslaughter, but it's manslaughter because I didn't intend to kill. I did intend to do some harm (push someone over).

The intent that @foreveryoung is talking about in the OP you replied to was referring to whether the player in question intended to do any harm to Johnson at all, that's the distinction I'm trying to make.

 

If the player intended to kick Johnson with his skate (i.e. do some sort of harm) then manslaughter is a real possibility. If it was a complete accident that his skate hit him then it can't be manslaughter. That's what I was trying to say.

No, there are two types of manslaughter (three if you include corporate), voluntary and involuntary. The former is intent to harm, the latter isn't. Involuntary manslaughter is further divided again into unlawful act manslaughter and gross negligent manslaughter. A complete accident as you're saying can still be gross negligent involuntary manslaughter. It’s also sometimes referred to as reckless manslaughter

[UpTheVilla26]

Just been reading about Puff Daddy, Diddy or whatever he calls himself these days. 

R&B singer Cassie - who I had a massive crush on back in the early 2000s - has come out with a load of allegations that he made her do all sorts of stuff to satisfy his weird sexual needs. 

Apparantly he plied her with drugs before encounters with male prostitutes, which he'd then watch, film and get off on. Just reading the amount of stuff he supposedly plied her with before these alleged encounters, fair play if she was able to walk still, let alone do much else. 

Not sure how much of it is true but I do think people like Puff had a massive power trip back in the day. There was always something about him I didn't like, I was heavily into the Rap scene back then and I just couldn't stick the clown. He had some great artists signed to Bad Boy - Shyne, Black Rob, G Dep (who's career went tits up cos' he had murdered someone in the early 90s), but just couldn't help himself jumping onto their songs and ruining half of them as he wanted to be the star attraction.

I watched the R Kelly documentary and he was a right weirdo but I believe his fame & fortune played a huge part. They seem to think they are untouchable. Wouldn't be surprised if more women came out and made claims against Puff, if he was doing half this stuff to his supposed missus, then with the cash he could flash about, there must have been others.