The most "physical" Villa players

[Marka Ragnos]

I feel like this is a topic* that sort of lurks in a subterranean way under a lot of other topics, but I'd love to read your thoughts on which Villa players are more physical than others.

Mings and Carlos come to my mind instantly, but immediately I start thinking about what physicality actually means, too, and then I'm not so sure. I think also about what the trade-offs are when it comes to physicality -- more cards and pens? Isn't sprinting fast physical? Does "physical" mean propensity to violent conduct? So much to overthink here.

* With compliments to @TRO who, in one way or another, seems to talk about this often (unless I'm misinterpreting him), and @oishiiniku_uk, for take on Bournemouth match.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[Tom13]

After reading that, I have no idea what physical even means anymore

Edited December 3, 2023 by Tom13

[Mark Albrighton]

I know exactly what we mean by physical.

The answer is John McGinn.

Spoiler

 

[Xela]

He looks about two stone too 'physical'

[DJBOB]

Dunne and Collins were chuckle brothers but were one of our more recent “physical” centerbacks 

[MaVilla]

Physicality is two things for me, sometimes they are separate, sometimes together.

1) one type for me, is to be physically combative, aggressive, able to hold their own physically, and have the athleticism to impose their physicality on the game to the point that they can impact the mentality of players around them (either their own team mates or the opposition), this isnt also about yellows/reds, as poor yellows/reds for me just show an inability to control how you use your physicality/aggressiveness effectively, although, sometimes more yellows do come with these types of players due to their combativeness.

players who had this are players like Keane, Vieira, Pearce etc.

 

2) the other time is physicality in terms of ariel dominance and physicality, the game has modernised to a point that many fans forget, or fail to see how important it still is to be able to defend in the air and physically, but also how much it can add offensively, even though the modern game is much more technical now, there is still a lot of aerial battles and the ability to gain/lose control of your defensive and attacking areas in terms of crosses, corners, free kicks etc, and this can add a whole new dimension to your attacking threat, or defensive solidity, or on the flip side, defensive weakness and offensive one dimensionality.

Players who had this would be players like Van Dijk, Mings, Matip, Adams, Vidic, Ferdinand etc.

 

in terms of Villa players i would say.

Mings fits in both categories.

Carlos fits in the first category.

McGinn fits in the first category.

Watkins might fit in to the first, i tend to think he has all the attributes except for the aggression though.

Duran might fit in to one or both of those, but i haven't seen enough to make a judgement yet.

I dont think we have any others players who really, truly fit in to those categories, others may be athletic, good at intelligent cover, or a well time tackle, but there is a difference between that, and the specifics of the above, at least in my opinion.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by MaVilla

[villa4europe]

16 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Dunne and Collins were chuckle brothers but were one of our more recent “physical” centerbacks 

Clark too

Always remember the crunching tackle vs Leicester 

[tinker]

George Boateng, unbelieeevable strong DM for us. 

[villanmac]

10 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Clark too

Always remember the crunching tackle vs Leicester 

Lol my recollection of Clark is centre forwards wearing him like a Johnny.

[Mantis]

26 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Clark too

Always remember the crunching tackle vs Leicester 

Nah Clark was pretty powder-puff. When he was coming through the youth setup he was supposed to be a really good ballplayer but in the end he wasn't great at that either.

[Tom13]

11 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Nah Clark was pretty powder-puff. When he was coming through the youth setup he was supposed to be a really good ballplayer but in the end he wasn't great at that either.

Yeah, I thought he was going to be a classy CB, ended up nowhere near it!

[Mantis]

2 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Yeah, I thought he was going to be a classy CB, ended up nowhere near it!

Yep - basically a really really poor man's version of Torres.

[Stratvillan]

I remember Neale Coopers (rip) home debut, almost cut a player in half. A solid player, but hard as nails. 

[psavfc81]

George Curtis  HEITS

[villan95]

From the current crop: Martinez, Carlos, Mings, Kamara, McGinn, Watkins, Duran and Zaniolo are who I'd consider to be physical although some are obviously more effective at using it than others.

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, villan95 said:

From the current crop: Martinez, Carlos, Mings, Kamara, McGinn, Watkins, Duran and Zaniolo are who I'd consider to be physical although some are obviously more effective at using it than others.

If Spurs fans were to be believed then Matty Cash should be in the UFC

[meregreen]

Andy Lochhead was a real old fashioned bruiser. Good in the air, a great target man, and made of granite.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I feel like this is a topic* that sort of lurks in a subterranean way under a lot of other topics, but I'd love to read your thoughts on which Villa players are more physical than others.

Mings and Carlos come to my mind instantly, but immediately I start thinking about what physicality actually means, too, and then I'm not so sure. I think also about what the trade-offs are when it comes to physicality -- more cards and pens? Isn't sprinting fast physical? Does "physical" mean propensity to violent conduct? So much to overthink here.

* With compliments to @TRO who, in one way or another, seems to talk about this often (unless I'm misinterpreting him), and @oishiiniku_uk, for take on Bournemouth match.

I think is really important in a squad.....but some positions require it more than others, that means some players ,playing in those positions require it.......not all.

It helps you to stay on the ball, and helps you to win the ball with a shoulder charge or just leaning in.....It helps in aerial duels too....It also has a latent effect of wearing a team down.

I can be particularly in evidence "away" from home, where tenacious teams and partisan crowds provide a siege mentality.

Physicality, must not be confused with thuggery and ill timed tackles, or for that matter, Low blocks and parking the bus, is not an accurate description of physicality, in my book.

Its a physical game, where contact is made, if that contact can be manifested in to an over powering, presence the chances are more challenges will be won.

How many times do we see it at all levels of football where such teams just steam roller passive sides and their football talent goes missing.

I am not suggesting football talent is ignored or dismissed on the contrary.......but a talented team with all the skills, is a much more durable prospect towards winning, if they are blessed in the ranks with a bit of Muscle.

This is in no way condoning the Vinnie Jones style or Ben Mee challenges.....that is not what, I am getting at.

I am also not suggesting football talent is compromised, by physicality, merely supporting talent and aligning with it.

you only have to study the style of Newcastle, to see how their wide players, engage in the contact side of the game, over and above, their skill sets.

Its not the be all and end all of football....but if a team has aspirations for winning things, trophies etc......you need your fair share of it, to stay durable.

Edited December 4, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

13 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Physicality is two things for me, sometimes they are separate, sometimes together.

1) one type for me, is to be physically combative, aggressive, able to hold their own physically, and have the athleticism to impose their physicality on the game to the point that they can impact the mentality of players around them (either their own team mates or the opposition), this isnt also about yellows/reds, as poor yellows/reds for me just show an inability to control how you use your physicality/aggressiveness effectively, although, sometimes more yellows do come with these types of players due to their combativeness.

players who had this are players like Keane, Vieira, Pearce etc.

 

2) the other time is physicality in terms of ariel dominance and physicality, the game has modernised to a point that many fans forget, or fail to see how important it still is to be able to defend in the air and physically, but also how much it can add offensively, even though the modern game is much more technical now, there is still a lot of aerial battles and the ability to gain/lose control of your defensive and attacking areas in terms of crosses, corners, free kicks etc, and this can add a whole new dimension to your attacking threat, or defensive solidity, or on the flip side, defensive weakness and offensive one dimensionality.

Players who had this would be players like Van Dijk, Mings, Matip, Adams, Vidic, Ferdinand etc.

 

in terms of Villa players i would say.

Mings fits in both categories.

Carlos fits in the first category.

McGinn fits in the first category.

Watkins might fit in to the first, i tend to think he has all the attributes except for the aggression though.

Duran might fit in to one or both of those, but i haven't seen enough to make a judgement yet.

I dont think we have any others players who really, truly fit in to those categories, others may be athletic, good at intelligent cover, or a well time tackle, but there is a difference between that, and the specifics of the above, at least in my opinion.

 

I thought that was a really good summary.....spot on IMO.

I think we need to add one of those in both categories, to help in particular with our away form......a Trippier type full back would be welcome for me...his intensity and urgency, what we need.

We are still too easliy challenged off the ball, a few too many players are guilty, particulalry Zaniolo....we are short (IMO) of players with defensive assertion, who can challenge game opponents and nullify their enthusiasm.

We have now dropped points away from home to 3 teams in the bottom half.....partly due to a sparse appetite to engage in closing them down, and willingness to suffocate their zeal.

We stand off too much waiting for the interception or mishap.....this is not assertive.

I don't know, whether they are told to play like this to conserve energy, but we are paying the price, with dropped points.....thats the trade off.

 

[alreadyexists]

Alan Wright used to be a feisty one despite his size.