Ratings & Reactions: Nottm Forest v Villa

[icouldtelltheworld]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I wonder if we’ve ever lost a game with 73 possession before.

Paul Lambert says hello

[Talldarkandransome]

1 hour ago, WooJung said:

I would tend to respectfully disagree. Forest after scoring early on in each half has happy to let us have the ball and defended in a very disciplined way.

We had lots of the ball but had no idea what to do with it and resorted to hopelessly crossing it in the box, where diaby, Watkins and bailey had little to no chance to get much joy.

Our forward line was mostly invisible and our midfielders were unable to find a way through. We didn't seem to have a plan or the personell to play against a low block today.

I can't argue with this but I honestly don't think we were that bad. We had a plan we just lacked penetration in final 3rd... they had two shots on target and scored both... we've scored bundles previously so I'm not worried. We'll play worse and win 

[Risso]

Not for the first time in away games, he got the set up from the off all wrong today. Kamara dropping back into a three man central defence and Cash trying and failing dismally to provide width on the right. It meant that the normal central midfield duo of Luiz and Kamara was all over the place, and McGinn was a bit in no man's land. Quite why we needed to alter the formation so much for Forest is beyond me. Anyway, it didn't remotely work, and our away form is becoming a little bit concerning. Drubbings by Newcastle and Liverpool, winning thanks partly to a sending off against Chelsea, and 1 point from 6 from Wolves and Forest. Emery has said we need to be a lot better away, then they serve up that abomination today.

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, catanzaro said:

It feels like we’ve been like that at all our away games.. we just normally score, and we don’t concede from shots outside the box

I’m sure Unai will figure it out

I know what you mean, we haven't been as adventurous away but there as still been a focus regarding the players and what their duties are, especially defensively. I'm afraid we offered little today in terms of commitment and guile. I think Matty Cash forgot he had left Forest, Diaby was all over the place, except where it mattered most. Watkins missed his obligatory sitter. It was a very weird performance, which I don't think any of us expected. It certainly ruined my weekend, the first game of the season I buy with a Sky sports day pass and I get served up with that. 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Jas10 said:

I know, I’m just expressing my own views or feelings in general.

Just feeling that it’s good to have some perspective, look at the bigger picture and how far we’ve actually come.

Can’t be constantly rosy.

I accept and acknowledge your views too, can’t disagree.

We can't be constantly at our best, I accept that....but anywhere close, and we would have won that.

My biggest concern on the day, was how easily, we was cancelled.

just hope it was a one off, and we can quickly get back on the horse.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, East London Villa said:

No great cause for concern for me. Away from home against a team with pace, power and a very solid defensive structure. Add an early goal and you have a recipe for our nightmare opposition.

As good as we've been under Emery, there are still clear deficiencies in this squad. We don't have enough players with the quality, experience and composure to break down packed defences. We still lack physicality in key areas of the pitch.

We need one of Diaby Zaniolo Bailey to step up in tight games rather than when we're dominant or the game is open. We need Ramsey and Moreno back to offer more pace and quality on the ball. We need to sign proper competition for Cash and a physically imposing midfielder that can go toe to toe with a Mangala/Sangare.

None of that gets fixed overnight so we also need patience as fans and accept that in this phase of our development, games like this will happen.

I agree with much of that....... but, you do know they have won 2 before today, so I imagine their main task was to stop us, which they did in military fashion.

We like space, to play in....we don't like confined space or opponents in our faces, so this was not going to go well for us....and it didn't.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said:

Firstly. This was just as much Steve Coopers tactics that won them the game as our poor performance.  They always managed to double up on us in most areas. We werent abysmal. Nothing like abysmal. But they had an answer for everyrhing.  

Bad day at the office. Move on and win the next one. Still in 5th .

Yeah, they did, which means we should have had men free....the sad fact is, they went after us, and we in contrast, didn't go after them( The 2 goals was an example of a freedom to shoot) sadly, they worked harder than us without the ball, showed more intensity and urgency.

I was particularly miffed as to why a great gaping hole appeared in our defence in front of Emi, for their first goal....He had absolutely no protection, from that shot.

[Jas10]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

We can't be constantly at our best, I accept that....but anywhere close, and we would have won that.

My biggest concern on the day, was how easily, we was cancelled.

just hope it was a one off, and we can quickly get back on the horse.

A poor first half and Emi’s error for the second goal (when we were pushing and trying to get back in the game) were what caused our downfall really…

after that we dominated (although they were free to sit on a healthy lead) and constantly pressured them, despite a lack of variation/imagination in play and over reliance on Digne/crosses, but for some reason completely lost our ability to shoot on target or finish chances. Also, Cash was particularly poor imo. His limitations are exposed in an Unai team… despite being a good lad and hard worker.

It was poor but we have a lot to learn from and work on… Unai will have these players tied down and forced to go through all the analysis with him and they will be coached to be better and avoid such situations reoccurring too often…

We’re 5th in the league… that suggests that this kind of thing leans more toward the exception than the norm… but we know that anyway.

Much better days ahead and to look forward to. If we always played well and never made mistakes, we’d be competing for the title if not winning it - this set of players is a long way from doing or being capable of doing anything like that or performing to that kind of level. We aren’t an elite team and this isn’t a group of elite players… not yet anyway… the injuries certainly don’t help either…

Fortunately, our expectations are not quite so sky-high and unrealistic, but we’re not a Champions League team or squad either. Since Unai arrived, I would class us as “over achievers” in a sense… really don’t think there are any other managers or coaches out there that would have got as much out of these players as Unai has and will do. We’ve got to keep strengthening for him to take us further and further…

Squad is depleted and limited… but we usually, near enough, have a good 11… much stronger when JJ and Moreno return (which may counteract or offset any expected or perceived future or incoming slump). January window and the potential return of Buendia sooner than expected to look forward to…

It’s a long season and there’s plenty to look forward to and enjoy, let’s not let the odd defeat shake our belief and conviction… we’ve been mostly great overall and dealt with many challenges and setbacks. A lot to be pleased about and encouraged by…

Maybe this sort of thing is occasionally required or to be expected and due, to keep our feet on the ground, keep expectations in check and avoid an excess of arrogance, entitlement and complacency. That goes for both players and supporters.

Unai sees things very clearly, knows our issues/deficiencies and what needs working on… it’s always apparent and he’s always honest in his (post match) interviews… more than anyone, he knows we aren’t a “quick fix” and it’s going to take a lot of time, work and money to turn us into the team/squad he actually wants us to be…  but the progression has been wonderful.

We will and must learn from these experiences, I’m sure Unai will see to that.

We’ve come a long way and yet still have a long way to go… let’s just try n enjoy the ride and try to avoid too much negativity and extreme reactions when possible… we’d all be much better for it. 

[Vancvillan]

Not taking anything away from forest - they had a plan, stayed narrow expecting they could deal with balls from wide, and they executed it well.

That said, in their wildest dreams I doubt they thought they'd get a goal that early (which allowed them to dig in) and then get the sucker punch straight after the second half kicked off. And two goals from players who haven't scored that many between the in 2023.

From our side we gave Aina acres for the first strike, and the second was a rare Emi blunder. We also lacked players to drive at them - Moreno, Ramsey and to some degree Buendia were sorely missed.

Things went against us and they were solid. It happens, and they're no mugs at their patch.

Nine points from the next three games and all will be forgiven. More than ten points from the next five and I'll build a shrine to UE in one of my kid's bedrooms. I'm sure they'll understand and it's always warm in the laundry.

[oishiiniku_uk]

10 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I wonder if we’ve ever lost a game with 73 possession before. May not feel like it after that result but we are really are a top team now and have come a very long way. Was just a bad day at the office.

Top teams find a way to beat sides that are happy to let their opponent have the ball in areas that aren't threatening. We weren't able to pull Forest out of their defensive shape at all today. And we were also dominated physically by them too. We need players like Dougie, Kamara, Watkins etc. to be able to match the aggressiveness of teams like Forest. It's not the first time we've been bullied this season. 

[Kiwivillan]

20 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Top teams find a way to beat sides that are happy to let their opponent have the ball in areas that aren't threatening. We weren't able to pull Forest out of their defensive shape at all today. And we were also dominated physically by them too. We need players like Dougie, Kamara, Watkins etc. to be able to match the aggressiveness of teams like Forest. It's not the first time we've been bullied this season. 

Liverpool not top team based on lucky escape against Luton then?

Edited November 6, 2023 by Kiwivillan

[Captain_Townsend]

The reactions whenever we have a bad day are so OTT. Honestly we have an amazing 12 months can we never look at the bigger picture?

[DCJonah]

If you look at those stats, that's never been a 2-0 loss game. 

Combination of a lack of quality in the final 3rd and they defended well. 

We dominated the ball, we created some decent chances. 

[Sulberto21]

Should have won had we taken our chances. First half was poor but second half we had plenty of opportunities . Ollie should be scoring there. 

[sidcow]

16 hours ago, jim said:

What chances should we have taken? We didn’t lay a glove on them.

Watkins heading wide from the middle of the goal .  Bailey failing to get a freeheader on target and lathering one over from a good position  

McGinn blazing well over. We had several chances. 

Watkins especially was a nailed on goal.

[DaveAV1]

6 hours ago, Jas10 said:

A poor first half and Emi’s error for the second goal (when we were pushing and trying to get back in the game) were what caused our downfall really…

after that we dominated (although they were free to sit on a healthy lead) and constantly pressured them, despite a lack of variation/imagination in play and over reliance on Digne/crosses, but for some reason completely lost our ability to shoot on target or finish chances. Also, Cash was particularly poor imo. His limitations are exposed in an Unai team… despite being a good lad and hard worker.

It was poor but we have a lot to learn from and work on… Unai will have these players tied down and forced to go through all the analysis with him and they will be coached to be better and avoid such situations reoccurring too often…

We’re 5th in the league… that suggests that this kind of thing leans more toward the exception than the norm… but we know that anyway.

Much better days ahead and to look forward to. If we always played well and never made mistakes, we’d be competing for the title if not winning it - this set of players is a long way from doing or being capable of doing anything like that or performing to that kind of level. We aren’t an elite team and this isn’t a group of elite players… not yet anyway… the injuries certainly don’t help either…

Fortunately, our expectations are not quite so sky-high and unrealistic, but we’re not a Champions League team or squad either. Since Unai arrived, I would class us as “over achievers” in a sense… really don’t think there are any other managers or coaches out there that would have got as much out of these players as Unai has and will do. We’ve got to keep strengthening for him to take us further and further…

Squad is depleted and limited… but we usually, near enough, have a good 11… much stronger when JJ and Moreno return (which may counteract or offset any expected or perceived future or incoming slump). January window and the potential return of Buendia sooner than expected to look forward to…

It’s a long season and there’s plenty to look forward to and enjoy, let’s not let the odd defeat shake our belief and conviction… we’ve been mostly great overall and dealt with many challenges and setbacks. A lot to be pleased about and encouraged by…

Maybe this sort of thing is occasionally required or to be expected and due, to keep our feet on the ground, keep expectations in check and avoid an excess of arrogance, entitlement and complacency. That goes for both players and supporters.

Unai sees things very clearly, knows our issues/deficiencies and what needs working on… it’s always apparent and he’s always honest in his (post match) interviews… more than anyone, he knows we aren’t a “quick fix” and it’s going to take a lot of time, work and money to turn us into the team/squad he actually wants us to be…  but the progression has been wonderful.

We will and must learn from these experiences, I’m sure Unai will see to that.

We’ve come a long way and yet still have a long way to go… let’s just try n enjoy the ride and try to avoid too much negativity and extreme reactions when possible… we’d all be much better for it. 

Another excellent and balanced post Jas. you’re right Unai knows the squad, it’s strengths and deficiencies. He’s fixed what is fixable in the short term but knows, as should we, that there is work still be done. Some can be fixed by recruitment but there are no quick fixes after the stuff that went on before his arrival. We should be pleased but not daft about where he’s taken us so far but the job is way off complete yet but Unai is working on it and the club are still helping him with the tools he needs to take us to the place we all, him included, want to get to but it is a journey not a quick fix, no matter how much we’d like it to be. Negativity and throwing our toys out of the pram after every set back will not be any help at all. Bad days at the office happen to every team, we need to accept that no matter how disappointed we are. As we get better and better perhaps these days will be less frequent but then again with that more disappointing when they happen but we should stay calm and move on quickly as I’m sure everyone at the club will do, especially Unai. UTV!!!!

Edited November 6, 2023 by DaveAV1

[one_ian_taylor]

3 hours ago, Vancvillan said:

Not taking anything away from forest - they had a plan, stayed narrow expecting they could deal with balls from wide, and they executed it well.

That said, in their wildest dreams I doubt they thought they'd get a goal that early (which allowed them to dig in) and then get the sucker punch straight after the second half kicked off. And two goals from players who haven't scored that many between the in 2023.

From our side we gave Aina acres for the first strike, and the second was a rare Emi blunder. We also lacked players to drive at them - Moreno, Ramsey and to some degree Buendia were sorely missed.

Things went against us and they were solid. It happens, and they're no mugs at their patch.

Nine points from the next three games and all will be forgiven. More than ten points from the next five and I'll build a shrine to UE in one of my kid's bedrooms. I'm sure they'll understand and it's always warm in the laundry.

This is pretty much where I am too. We conceded softish goals at annoying times (especially the second) - I think Dougie  has to take a decent share of the blame for the  first, was very slow to react and seemed to stand off. 

Forest were great  as well. They were a  lot sharper  than us and really  disciplined in their area. Nothing was going to go for  us. 

While we were definitely off the boil and struggled with the pressure Forest applied,  it's  a far cry from many of the limp, incompetent, gutless defeats I've  seen in the past. There was still a plan - we weren't good enough  to make it  work, perhaps missed a little bit of X factor up front or an option to pose their defence a completely different problem, but it's only the very best teams and players that can rescue those situations. The offside trap still worked pretty well - a thing of beauty.

A frustrating day, but we're  not there yet. This will show us how to get better and ultimately improve in the longer term

[one_ian_taylor]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Watkins heading wide from the middle of the goal .  Bailey failing to get a freeheader on target and lathering one over from a good position  

McGinn blazing well over. We had several chances. 

Watkins especially was a nailed on goal.

Yeah, the finishing was terrible  yesterday, quite a few half decent shooting chances that went almost comically askew. I don't  think we had loads of good chances, but we could at least have hit the target  a but more.  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 hours ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

Paul Lambert says hello

Well... We go again...

[oishiiniku_uk]

2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Liverpool not top team based on lucky escape against Luton then?

My point was that having 75% possession doesn't mean much if you aren't creating good quality chances. Liverpool had 24 shots (including 5 big chances) against Luton and should have won comfortably. We had 13 shots against Forest (0 big chances) and didn't really look like scoring at any point. The better we get, the more teams will sit in against us and use their physicality to disrupt our passing game. We have to improve at passing against those kinds of stubborn opponents and also at being a match for them physically.