NurembergVillan Posted January 7 Moderator Share Posted January 7 19 minutes ago, Jas10 said: This is better than all of them: This one is good. Better than using a claret background, as when it's on the home shirt it will stand out whereas the claret background wouldn't. 20 minutes ago, Jas10 said: This is better than all of them: My understanding (as fan, not in any other capacity) is that there are trademark issues with the 1982 badges and variations thereof. That is why we switched to a shield for the dawn of the PL era. Similar to the Italian national team shield during the Kappa era, it had been used in such a ubiquitous manner without ever being protected that it could no longer be protected. If accurate, that won't have changed over time. I'm happy to be corrected on that though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted January 7 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7 I actually do not mind this ‘unleashed’ version of the leaked badge too much. the text being underneath actually makes sense when presented like this, without the shield. If this is really the new badge the hopefully the unleashed version will be used a lot! Would still prefer the new lion to be used. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 10 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: This one is good. Better than using a claret background, as when it's on the home shirt it will stand out whereas the claret background wouldn't. My understanding (as fan, not in any other capacity) is that there are trademark issues with the 1982 badges and variations thereof. That is why we switched to a shield for the dawn of the PL era. Similar to the Italian national team shield during the Kappa era, it had been used in such a ubiquitous manner without ever being protected that it could no longer be protected. If accurate, that won't have changed over time. I'm happy to be corrected on that though. My personal or actual preference would be a gold lion on claret… not sure how popular that is or would be though… maybe add some blue to provide extra contrast against the shirt. It’s easy to tweak or alter existing/previous badges in that way though and solve the contrast issue (stupid colour scheme)… I assume… Edited January 7 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Just some small tweaking to the badge below (Aston Villa rather than AVFC) then using variations of it for different branding, signage, media streams etc, would have been enough for me. I cannot fathom why we’ve gone with a yellow lion on a blue background again 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
479Villan Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 13 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: This one is good. Better than using a claret background, as when it's on the home shirt it will stand out whereas the claret background wouldn't. This is the bit I’m focused on. The new crest is being designed on a claret background, not a white one. That’s why it is the color scheme that you see as the “primary,” they’re trying to have it stand out from the shirt. That’s also why there are so many different colored variants filed. Spurs have a blue crest on home kits, a white on change strips, etc, you match to the background Crest on a shirt has to work with the colors around it. Which is why this looks so bad (I own this shirt though): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Lamptey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 14 hours ago, Muller Yogurt Long Sleever said: Working in design and as a Villa fan, the brand identity means a huge amount and it would be a privilege to work on it. That’s why a lot of us can’t (and rightly won’t) let it lie. So a rant, albeit hopefully a constructive one. Looking back on the last two goes at it: The previous 2015/2016 version - by a top tier design agency with football club creds, almost certainly working with limitations of an evolution brief, with fan input. Not sure why the colours weren’t sorted, and the ‘Lerner’ crest certainly wasn’t universally liked; but the full lion was beautifully crafted (not so good in 2D), there was a bespoke font and iconography with claw marks and as a coherent body of work, it mostly worked. Elegant, heritage-based, but modern. Last year’s version - by a top tier design agency with football club creds, I assume working with a more open-minded brief but with fan feedback about elements, which would seem to have limited their thinking and scope somewhat. A well-drawn 2D lion, nicely crafted typeface, presented in two shape options. Fan vote was round badge - and overall it’s well-executed and works. Classic but modern. (Despite me thinking a circle isn’t right for us, but that’s just opinion.) Both would’ve come at considerable cost (although probably half of Lucas Digne’s weekly wage. Player budget vs marking budget are in different galaxies though.) But now we’re apparently being presented with something that isn’t fit for purpose nor befitting the prestige it deserves. People joke about it being made in Microsoft Paint but the crest we’re seeing, if real, is fundamentally unprofessional - cobbled together with elements from the last two efforts within a new crest shape. Arranged awkwardly and trying to solve the colour issue with a chunky drop shadow. If it’s a cost cutting exercise, there’s a good chance it was done in-house or by a cheaper-option contact, as has been suggested. (That’s not a slur on any design resource at the club, I don’t know them, their level, nor their brief; nor indeed if this is what’s happened. Nor do I know Mr.Heck, who has presumably directed and approved the alleged result. Just speculating due to the below-par execution.) All I can say is if what we’re seeing is true, it’s frustratingly not good enough. Despite my preference to not have a round badge, I’d take it all day long over what we’re apparently getting. It’ll be very interesting to see if there’s a wider set of assets released alongside the alleged new crest, such as the font and any other bits from this year’s agency effort. It may slightly rescue things. I’ve always thought the best way to do these very challenging projects is to allow a good agency to run the process, of gleaning a decent amount of fan feedback and insight to develop a solution. But from being involved in this forum, I think there’s a clear case for designer fans with the knowledge, insight and talent to collaborate on such things (as has been suggested). There are clearly people on here (doing some lovely things purely as a passion project. How cost-friendly is that?! Bound to be the same at other clubs. - AAANNNND ANOTHER THING - apart from the overall quality of design, something that really grinds my gears is that with a brand refresh coming at the same time as the 150 year anniversary, it was an opportunity to incorporate it in a new visual identity, then proudly move forward with our shiny new look. Yes the 150 is a temporary one-off, but the fact that it seemingly has no correlation whatsoever with the badge stylistically feels wrong (aside from it also being fairly illegible). - I had high hopes for Mr.Heck and have to admit I was glad things were going back to the drawing board - but again, that’s personal opinion about the brand, and a separate conversation. There was a coincidental crossover of people at the helm (Purslow-Heck), and I wanted to trust that we had someone who’d steer it in a more innovative, ownable direction whilst respecting fans and history, as much as it wasn’t a great look to change course. On the evidence so far, this is not the case. I hate being negative and don’t want to sound preachy, but it’s born out of passion and therefore frustrating. It’s mostly opinions, but they come from a decent amount of knowledge and experience. Our identity is for us to own and love, and how we present ourselves to the world. Any re-brand, re-fresh, logo change or whatever, at least needs a sound reason as well as being well executed. Not everyone will love the outcome, but at least have those. Where we allegedly are would seem to cancel any reason because it now looks like change for change’s sake, as well as being poorly made. So despite the messy process it has been, I’d rather go again and achieve something befitting of our great club. Right now it’s either have something crap which was the result of a less than ideal process, and will be largely disliked moving forward (on the evidence I’ve seen) and probably result in having to do it again sooner rather than later; vs. have something that the majority think looks great and lasts for decades, with the crap process becoming a historical footnote. (Or simply leave it at what you invested in last year.) Full judgement reserved until when things are officially released. This may well have been another pointless outburst. But on the off-chance the club are reading through this stuff - please let us help you fix it. The reactions are because this really matters. Hey we played a game of football today didn’t we? As a fellow designer, this post does a really good job of expressing pretty much how I feel about the wider situation and the detailed design of the new Trademarked crest. Someone also made a great point about the cost saving benefits of this remixed version using the existing lion (that is already plastered all over the ground and printed on promotional assets and merchandise stock), which is most likely the driving force behind it. Though of course this won't be the reason expressed to the fans. The decision is based on a short term gain (or minimised loss) rather than long term benefit. As stated in the middle of the quoted Post, this whole process should have been an opportunity to sort out the visual identity of the Club, not just the crest. The current visual identity is almost non-existent and totally muddled at best. I makes us look small time and amateurish. We should be entrusting a top agency to do something like this: https://www.dixonbaxi.com/work/acmilanbrand https://thisaway.co/work/forward-thinking-football https://someoneinlondon.com/projects/the-pack-is-back https://www.nssmag.com/en/sports/30484/venezia-logo-borsche-bureau https://im.inter.it/en/?utm_source=news&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=IM It's interesting to re-watch the video that Dragon Rouge made for the 2 crest options, including the reasoning behind the design decisions (https://www.dragonrouge.com/news/why-our-aston-villa-crest-redesign-is-great-for-all-football-fans-eng/), and hinting at how they could be rolled out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Guessing at least one, probably two of the kits will have monochrome badges next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkymonkey666 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 36 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: This one is good. Better than using a claret background, as when it's on the home shirt it will stand out whereas the claret background wouldn't. My understanding (as fan, not in any other capacity) is that there are trademark issues with the 1982 badges and variations thereof. That is why we switched to a shield for the dawn of the PL era. Similar to the Italian national team shield during the Kappa era, it had been used in such a ubiquitous manner without ever being protected that it could no longer be protected. If accurate, that won't have changed over time. I'm happy to be corrected on that though. @NurembergVillan If, as it appears we are sticking with this colour mix, from a production point of view, would it be possible to outline the yellow lion on the shirt badges (in claret or black perhaps) to define it against the blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 34 minutes ago, 0Lamptey said: As a fellow designer, this post does a really good job of expressing pretty much how I feel about the wider situation and the detailed design of the new Trademarked crest. Someone also made a great point about the cost saving benefits of this remixed version using the existing lion (that is already plastered all over the ground and printed on promotional assets and merchandise stock), which is most likely the driving force behind it. Though of course this won't be the reason expressed to the fans. The decision is based on a short term gain (or minimised loss) rather than long term benefit. As stated in the middle of the quoted Post, this whole process should have been an opportunity to sort out the visual identity of the Club, not just the crest. The current visual identity is almost non-existent and totally muddled at best. I makes us look small time and amateurish. We should be entrusting a top agency to do something like this: https://www.dixonbaxi.com/work/acmilanbrand https://thisaway.co/work/forward-thinking-football https://someoneinlondon.com/projects/the-pack-is-back https://www.nssmag.com/en/sports/30484/venezia-logo-borsche-bureau https://im.inter.it/en/?utm_source=news&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=IM It's interesting to re-watch the video that Dragon Rouge made for the 2 crest options, including the reasoning behind the design decisions (https://www.dragonrouge.com/news/why-our-aston-villa-crest-redesign-is-great-for-all-football-fans-eng/), and hinting at how they could be rolled out. Thing is, after all our moaning, we still haven't even seen our official crest launch or branding kit yet . Sometimes a full branding kit can put things in much better perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted January 7 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: This. Simple. It's the best one. Use this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 What I'm wondering is why people actually see this as a cost saving exercise? I maybe wrong but surely changing the shield shape from the Lerner era or overall template means cost savings are actually negligible. The only thing staying the same is the lion and the colour scheme. All the signage around the club will still need replacing as with everything else. The design although similar is still different. To me it appears it's just a shit idea and not about cost saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said: This one is good. Better than using a claret background, as when it's on the home shirt it will stand out whereas the claret background wouldn't. My understanding (as fan, not in any other capacity) is that there are trademark issues with the 1982 badges and variations thereof. That is why we switched to a shield for the dawn of the PL era. Similar to the Italian national team shield during the Kappa era, it had been used in such a ubiquitous manner without ever being protected that it could no longer be protected. If accurate, that won't have changed over time. I'm happy to be corrected on that though. Alternative colour scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Thing is, after all our moaning, we still haven't even seen our official crest launch or branding kit yet . Sometimes a full branding kit can put things in much better perspective. At the very least, we know that this new badge or leaked one is the one that was briefly shown to the FAB and the Villa Trust have relayed their thoughts, complaints etc. Unless something changes, it will be the badge and colour scheme that represents us going forwards… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted January 7 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, mikeyjavfc said: I actually do not mind this ‘unleashed’ version of the leaked badge too much. the text being underneath actually makes sense when presented like this, without the shield. If this is really the new badge the hopefully the unleashed version will be used a lot! Would still prefer the new lion to be used. I mean, I agree about unleashing the lion (I think) but obviously you couldn't have a claret lion on a claret shirt so the above idea of an unleashed lion AND more claret is completely daft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fightoffyour Posted January 7 Author VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Fwiw the claret background looks best for me. It’s far more impactful than the baby powder blue background of the other options 4 hours ago, villan95 said: So frustrating that a few simple tweaks would make the leaked one so much better. I'd be happy with any of these 3. Claret background but gold (using the AU1500 scheme) lion and lettering is clearly the best option: Edited January 7 by fightoffyour 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted January 7 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7 Comparison: 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 They should just release a badge and say this is the badge now please shut up about it and we're no more going to use one of your fantastic fan made designs than we would use a fan made design for the Villa Park rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 minute ago, Troglodyte said: Comparison: Man alive, that design on the right is so woeful next to anything half decent. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 14 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: Claret background but gold (using the AU1500 scheme) lion and lettering is clearly the best option: Ooh… nicely done. Maybe this really is the one… we should have. Edited January 7 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeps Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I still cannot believe that new badge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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