The Aston Villa high line thread

[MattVillaPortsmouth]

54 minutes ago, andym said:

First goal wasn't a ball over the top. Cash simply got done far too easily on a 1-2 and yes that meant space in behind, but our overall positioning in that situation was no different to how a multitude of teams set up. We got plenty of men back, but Luiz's decision to not close down was fatal - if anything we had too many too deep when the shot came in (not helped by Cash tripping over his own feet trying to track back, which drags Konsa out to cover the Forest player, which drags a midfielder into the box).

2nd goal Cash again gets easily beaten, but in the end its still a shit looping ball in that Konsa should be getting, but he completely misjudges. That allows Forest to recycle the ball back out, but again, we still have 8 outfield players back between the goal scorer and the goal - some not great closing down and some awful keeping costs us.

Totally agree, the first goal both our DMs (as such) dropped into CBS which meant we had no closing down on edge of box - the ball probably wasn’t even meant for that player (was over hit), it should have been walked onto by dougie or kamara.  The second Konsa was done by the bounce, 9 out of 10 he deals with that again we don’t close down. 
 

 

VAR plays into our hands with high line, close call will be scrutinised - yes we will get thumped once in a while, everyone bar city do.

 

Our problem with high line and playing out, is when teams don’t press, so we can’t bypass it - severely missing Emi B is these times, especially when they have a lead to defend.

Edited November 6, 2023 by MattVillaPortsmouth

[andym]

1 hour ago, DJBOB said:

Collymore is agreeing with Emery but I agree in general with @tonyh29 that the vast majority of pundits are managerial idiots without a trophy in between them. The high line is very visual and 'looks' risky even though the underlying data and the obvious reasons (low percentage shots went in and we didn't take our chances) are the far more obvious reasons we lost.

Tellingly, successful managers never comment on the high line because they know exactly the pros and cons and who's good at it and who's not.

 

Yep, lots of pundits are still pretty 'old school'; sitting back, relying on last ditch blocks and the keeper pulling off save after save is great defending, because it looks committed and that's how they were brought up. Even though you are giving up way more chances, and the teams that play like that get beaten more often, that gets ignored to focus on the comparatively fewer times a team who plays a higher line gets done. 

Its like with possession, they used to jump on the handful of occasions where someone like Pulis or Bruce would take a team to Old Trafford or Anfield, and luck their way to a win with 20% of the ball - 'see you don't need possession to win games'. Ignoring all the other losses those managers would serve up with their sit back and punt it forwards strategy.

There's a reason the likes of Pep, Klopp, Emery, Arteta etc play a possession games with a more aggressive defensive line, and there's a reason they are on the touchline and winning trophies, and pundits are stuck in the studio.

[CVByrne]

The high line is good for compressing the pitch and it's clearly worked very well for us. Against a deep low block Buendia / Ramsey players are going to be very useful 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, El Segundo said:

But Collymore is agreeing with Emery isn't he?  And I think he's right.  People commented on our high line at Liverpool being an issue but none of their goals came directly from us playing it, even though our pressing that day, which is meant to be an important part of making it work,  was pretty bad, and they did get in behind a fair bit. 

Our issue yesterday was if they did beat the highline then every defender and midfielder seemed to bomb back into the box, even though there were only three, maybe four Forest players to watch in that area.  The forwards didn't track back and there was therefore that big gap at the edge of the box for their players to line up shots.  If Zaniolo tracks back with the full back he would not have been able to get his shot away.  If one of the midfielders had not dropped back so deep for the second, maybe the second shot doesn't materialise.  Then it was a case of one being very well placed and one being totally messed up by our keeper.   Not the fault of the high line.

my bad , I didn't click the actual link so only read up to the "but" on Collymores post  , so at that point just assumed he was bundling on with all the others about the high line 

[villa4europe]

Its like passing it round at the back, some fans will never be comfortable with it or see the positives from it

It works for the vast majority of games, the only teams I've seen outplay it this year were Newcastle who did it with very fine margins (and mings injury) and Liverpool who did it using flaws in the offside rules (runners from deep running past the "inactive" player we successfully played offside)

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I can't remember a single one they got wrong.

Ball over the top to Awoniyi who was through on goal. Got called early, was well onside.

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Ball over the top to Awoniyi who was through on goal. Got called early, was well onside.

Around what time - I don't recall it.

[Zatman]

We definitely have a better grasp of it than Spurs do

[Spoony]

I find it amazing there’s a debate about this and pundits decrying our high line. We are literally as good as we have been in my lifetime. We have the third (?) most points in 2023. But yeah sure the high line is mad . Presumably it’s the only thing stopping us beating teams like Brighton 8-1 and winning the league. Emery out. 

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Around what time - I don't recall it.

Really not sure, but definitely first half. 

[bobzy]

23 minutes ago, Spoony said:

I find it amazing there’s a debate about this and pundits decrying our high line. We are literally as good as we have been in my lifetime. We have the third (?) most points in 2023. But yeah sure the high line is mad . Presumably it’s the only thing stopping us beating teams like Brighton 8-1 and winning the league. Emery out. 

Views that can be had at the same time:

1. Having a view that us playing a high line is good and enables us to play as well as we have done.

2.  Having a view that if a team exploits the high line, we should adapt to stop them doing it.

I know, it’s pretty staggering that it’s not complete criticism or complete praise.

[Zatman]

Unsurprising the media hypocrisy today about these high lines

[TRO]

23 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Maybe he wasn't at one time but Spurs this year play out of the back with the same frequency we do. 

Spurs also play with a high line as they are third in the league on catching the opponent offside.

Yes, they do...so maybe, he changed his mind from his past comments.

Edited November 7, 2023 by TRO

[Pinebro]

Why is Ange praised for it and Unai criticized for it by media?

[MSvillain]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

Unsurprising the media hypocrisy today about these high lines

Ange invented it at 8pm last night dont you know

[thunderball]

No debate for me, its part of Emery's system and our whole system of defensive and offensive play relies on it. Change that and might as well rip everything up. But its working well as the table shows: we are scoring more, have more possession and are catching opposition offside time and time again. 

[DJBOB]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yes, they do...so maybe, he changed his mind form his past comments.

Little did I know how high of a line they actually play.

Even I found it...overly aggressive.

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, thunderball said:

No debate for me, its part of Emery's system and our whole system of defensive and offensive play relies on it. Change that and might as well rip everything up. But its working well as the table shows: we are scoring more, have more possession and are catching opposition offside time and time again. 

I am not in favour of ripping it up....but I do think, we can improve upon it.

[romavillan]

27 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Little did I know how high of a line they actually play.

Even I found it...overly aggressive.

At times our back line was on the halfway line when forest had the ball. Had we been sharper in front of goal and not gifted them goals we'd all be saying what a great performance pinning them back in their half etc.

[TRO]

When we won the League in 1980/81.....I never heard anyone talk about the system we employed...and I don't remember the fans of the day discussing it.

is it over analyzation?

Sure times have changed....just saying