blandy Posted January 4 Moderator Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Risso said: Like all investments, there's never a perfect time to do it, but the sooner you commit to it, the sooner you start to see the benefits. The FFP rules were updated last year, and allowances are made for anything that improves the facilities at a club. So for example, knocking a stand down would mean less income obviously. The loss of this income would be allowed in the FFP calculations. So effectively, the calculations would still be made as if the stand were still there, which wouldn't alter the ability to bring in new players etc. Other than that, the majority of the increased income from being in the Champions League comes from commercial sources, and wouldn't be affected by not having the North Stand there at all. Sorry Pete, it makes no sense at all. Villa Park isn't big enough, and the longer we take to make it bigger, the more and more we'll fall behind in revenue terms. In 2026 we could have a 50,000+ stadium, with enhanced facilities and a much better corporate offering, and we'd be bringing in millions more a year. Now we won't, and we're stuck with an eyesore of a stand with terrible facilities. You miss the point about wages as a percentage of turnover required by UEFA to reduce down to an allowable 70% from currently 90%. This takes no account of ground building, lost income from a demolished stand or much else. And it's that which is (I think) the catch. I'm not talking about domestic P&S rules, but the UEFA ones, as they're not (yet) aligned. If (and I'm sure they do) the board and Heck want to compete viably in Europe, then that means wages to turnover being no more than 70%. If you reduce turnover by several millions a season for 2 seasons then you have to reduce wages, too. And that's on top of having to reduce the percentage spent on wages from a currently allowed 90%, to 70% by 25/26 season. Look, I agree with you that we've desperately needed the stand replacing and a larger capacity for a long time, and I don't like that they've sacked off doing that, or that the communication has been truly abysmal. Or that Heck in particular seems to fail to understand the nature of involvement fans have in the UK, or any apparent aptitude for being "open" - he appears to be a kind of "I'm doing what I'm doing, I'm not explaining and I'm not listening" kind of bloke. But put yourself in his shoes and there is a logic to it (even if I don't agree with his decision). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 4 Moderator Share Posted January 4 I think a lot of that is true - but I don't think the loss of income thing is - the North Stand doesn't make a lot of income, and compared to the Champions league income it makes next to nothing - if we were to qualify, a good sleeve sponsor would cover half of the losses from the North Stand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 4 Moderator Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: the North Stand doesn't make a lot of income Well, perhaps not, relatively. But it's still a bit of a hit, even if it's only (say) a 7th of our match day revenue total (just using 6000/42000). Or a 16% drop while it's knocked down compared to keeping it. Obviously a new fancy bigger North stand would reverse that and more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Basically wants wrong with the entire country. Nobody wants to do anything that won't pay dividends in 5, 10, 20 years. It's all the hear and now, inflating their own profile, massaging their own ego. Do one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 15 minutes ago, blandy said: Well, perhaps not, relatively. But it's still a bit of a hit, even if it's only (say) a 7th of our match day revenue total (just using 6000/42000). Or a 16% drop while it's knocked down compared to keeping it. Obviously a new fancy bigger North stand would reverse that and more... This sort of logic, I have never seen it applied before. It didn't stop us expanding in the past or, for example, Liverpool recently expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 hours ago, bickster said: According to the last year available (To year end June 2022) Villa's revenue was £238mil of which matchday revenue was £36.4 mil, Thanks ... this is interesting info. If 'we' want to increase our capacity by about 25% our revenue will go up by about 9 million a year (unless more is charged). So for an expenditure of some 100 to 150 million plus a loss of probably two years' worth of North Stand revenue, and interest on loans ... say 5%. I would not invest my pension in this project. It may be useful to get around FFP regs. But people arguing for an increase in attendance need to give their heads a shake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Thanks ... this is interesting info. If 'we' want to increase our capacity by about 25% our revenue will go up by about 9 million a year (unless more is charged). So for an expenditure of some 100 to 150 million plus a loss of probably two years' worth of North Stand revenue, and interest on loans ... say 5%. I would not invest my pension in this project. It may be useful to get around FFP regs. But people arguing for an increase in attendance need to give their heads a shake. Oh sorry, shame on the fans for wanting to be able to readily get a hold of tickets to every game, shame on the people who've been sat on the waiting list for ages for wanting to become season-ticket holders. Is club revenue and FFP really all that you can see? Wtf is the point in becoming a Champions League club if we don't have the capacity for the average fan to be able to see those games in the flesh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 15 hours ago, blandy said: You miss the point about wages as a percentage of turnover required by UEFA to reduce down to an allowable 70% from currently 90%. This takes no account of ground building, lost income from a demolished stand or much else. And it's that which is (I think) the catch. I'm not talking about domestic P&S rules, but the UEFA ones, as they're not (yet) aligned. If (and I'm sure they do) the board and Heck want to compete viably in Europe, then that means wages to turnover being no more than 70%. If you reduce turnover by several millions a season for 2 seasons then you have to reduce wages, too. And that's on top of having to reduce the percentage spent on wages from a currently allowed 90%, to 70% by 25/26 season. Look, I agree with you that we've desperately needed the stand replacing and a larger capacity for a long time, and I don't like that they've sacked off doing that, or that the communication has been truly abysmal. Or that Heck in particular seems to fail to understand the nature of involvement fans have in the UK, or any apparent aptitude for being "open" - he appears to be a kind of "I'm doing what I'm doing, I'm not explaining and I'm not listening" kind of bloke. But put yourself in his shoes and there is a logic to it (even if I don't agree with his decision). Also if we qualify for the Champions League and it's currently very likely we do. We've made Villa Park a fortress and to then immediately knock down the north stand. It's literally the worst time to do it. If we make it past the group stages of CL there is serious money and UEFA coefficient points to be made. There's big money for every win in CL too. I assume Emery and team were probably consulted and I'm certain they wouldn't want the stand to be knocked down as it would impact Villa Park atmosphere and possibly the teams performance. Finally as you stated we need to get to the 70% squad cost situation and that is a very tricky cap to manage from the position we were in. Revenue growth is going to be a key cog in achieving it. Whatever people want to complain about there is a clear logic to the decision. One I support 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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TRO Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 7 hours ago, blandy said: I’ve read them and couldn’t find such a provision relating to squad costs. Might have missed it, mind. But regardless, if Heck actually explained the thinking and reasoning behind decisions he’s taken, we’d all be a lot wiser. I doubt the man’s an idiot and cancelling/postponing a major project is a big decision. We would and the views would be a lot more divided..........I don't think that is going to happen Pete. Any business, only tells customers ( sorry for the cold way of putting it) what they want them to know.....so many prickly subjects are kept discreet. It would be quite depressing, if we knew everything. I remember the first time, I was told Santa Claus wasn't real.....I am still recovering at Xmas time. PS I am not sure, what to think of Chris Heck. Edited January 5 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 5 Moderator Share Posted January 5 some posts have been moved to the stadium redevelopment thread, as they were mainly about VP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 hours ago, CVByrne said: We want to expand too. Knocking down the stand the moment we qualify for the Champions League and have turned Villa Park into a fortress isn't the right time or way to expand however. Wait two or three years and look to expand other parts in the interim. I believe we're adding another 2,700 seats to the capacity but not sure exactly where that is happening. It was announced What is the whole "Fortress" bull. Look, we have some good home form. it will dip, as soon as its no longer a "Fortress" do you want the club to suddenly start the plans up again and build a new stand? You cannot base long term capital project decisions on a temporary factor such as how well a football team is performing at home. Long term we need more revenue. The new stand will bring that. We also may not finish top 4 this season, why is this seemingly almost assumed? If we miss CL do you want them to pivot and dust the plans off and start up again? It's not that simple, they can't. Better to have potential CL football with a smaller crowd for a seasonor two, and long-term have the revenue stream of the new stand to follow, which would hopefully give more FFP wiggle room, to try and improve to the to keep us in the CL. "Fortress Villa Park" now should have no bearing on whether we build a new stand or not. It's so short sighted it's almost funny. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 04/01/2024 at 09:00, S-Platt said: If he's a footballer he's Ross McCormack came in with the hopes of firing us to glory but took the piss and used bullshit excuses. May I propose a solution… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 18 hours ago, TRO said: We would and the views would be a lot more divided..........I don't think that is going to happen Pete. Any business, only tells customers ( sorry for the cold way of putting it) what they want them to know.....so many prickly subjects are kept discreet. It would be quite depressing, if we knew everything. I remember the first time, I was told Santa Claus wasn't real.....I am still recovering at Xmas time. PS I am not sure, what to think of Chris Heck. Do kids read these pages? That might need a but of a content warning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 22 hours ago, GarethRDR said: Needs a bigger and heavier stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Helped secure the Adidas deal also, according to The Athletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 If he announced the North Stand was going ahead as planned I might forgive him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 If he announced the North Stand was going ahead as planned I might forgive him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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