Are we a Dirty Team?

[Zatman]

Just looking at the disciplinary table and we are 2nd bottom with the most yellow cards in the league. Wolves 3 red cards keeps us off the bottom

I know Emi gets a few time wasting cards but I didnt think we were that bad. Some on here used to call our players soft but other teams fans think we have dirty players

[HKP90]

We're not dirty, we've just played a number of top 6 teams and been allocated garbage refs.

[Tom13]

Nah. Just look at United with Fernandes and Martinez ffs. Players who intentionally go out to deceive and hurt others (latter in Martinez's case).

To quote O'Leary, we've got an honest bunch of lads.

[briny_ear]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Just looking at the disciplinary table and we are 2nd bottom with the most yellow cards in the league. Wolves 3 red cards keeps us off the bottom

I know Emi gets a few time wasting cards but I didnt think we were that bad. Some on here used to call our players soft but other teams fans think we have dirty players

Would be interested to see what our position was before yesterday. We picked up 7, which is absurd given the nature of the match. Largely due to the referee going slightly bonkers.

Edited November 14, 2022 by briny_ear

[messi11]

Depends on the weather

[The Fun Factory]

Could also be a lack of physicality/conditioning. If you are as not as strong as the opposition, you generally make more fouls.

[cheltenham_villa]

Were a bit dirty, its good to see, lots more game management, time wasting and some good technical fouls to slow the game. Oddly i saw Leon Bailey has 4, not a dirty player.

We got 7 at the weekend, i heard that this was our record ever.

[Ingram85]

Can we stop with discussions about dirtiness and time wasting etc. We get punished by refs for everything constantly compared to other teams who seemingly do whatever they want against us all the time, kick lumps out of us, dive, cheat, time waste etc…. they all get away with it against us and always have done.

I’m happy we are finally starting to toughen up and rough our opponents up a bit at last. For too long we’ve been a soft touch. 

[duke313]

6 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Can we stop with discussions about dirtiness and time wasting etc. We get punished by refs for everything constantly compared to other teams who seemingly do whatever they want against us all the time, kick lumps out of us, dive, cheat, time waste etc…. they all get away with it against us and always have done.

I’m happy we are finally starting to toughen up and rough our opponents up a bit at last. For too long we’ve been a soft touch. 

We've had a soft underbelly for too long. Teams always getting away with stuff against us.  No more.  Uncle Unai is in charge now.

[Teale's 'tache]

Just thought I'd have a look and there are some interesting stats out there. Keep in mind that 7 Yellows in one game has skewed things considerably.

We've committed 179 fouls and been fouled 180 times, we've received 37 Yellows and 1 Red (which was rescinded, but is still being shown in stats everywhere I look) , yet only 26 Yellows and 1 Red for our opposition... I appreciate that it depends upon each individual foul, but 11 yellows difference is quite a lot. The 180 fouls against us makes us the second most fouled team in the league, yet the 26 Yellows against us is about average.

Also Leeds have committed the same amount of fouls as us and yet only and received 29 Yellows and 2 Reds, again a difference of 8 Yellows for the same amount of fouls seems a bit much.

 

			Performance													Aerial Duels
Squad	# Pl	90s	CrdY	CrdR	2CrdY	Fls ▼	Fld	Off	Crs	Int	TklW	PKwon	PKcon	OG	Recov	Won	Lost	Won%
Aston Villa	23	15.0	37	1	0	179	180	31	252	142	149	2	3	3	763	204	213	48.9
Leeds United	24	14.0	29	2	2	179	139	19	243	145	185	1	1	1	809	206	200	50.7
Nott'ham Forest	25	15.0	36	0	0	170	157	23	222	126	150	1	5	0	714	214	196	52.2
Crystal Palace	20	14.0	32	0	0	169	187	18	177	114	148	1	0	1	757	176	172	50.6
Newcastle Utd	24	15.0	24	0	0	164	147	34	288	134	147	0	1	0	822	204	167	55.0
Manchester Utd	22	14.0	37	0	0	161	100	33	190	129	130	1	1	0	746	188	169	52.7
Wolves	26	15.0	29	3	0	159	153	24	272	112	143	0	2	1	787	170	185	47.9
Bournemouth	25	15.0	24	0	0	158	159	12	186	109	156	0	5	2	728	196	217	47.5
Southampton	26	15.0	24	0	0	154	139	18	283	158	164	0	0	1	861	211	254	45.4
Brighton	21	14.0	19	0	0	154	137	23	269	132	138	3	4	3	725	167	169	49.7
Tottenham	21	15.0	26	1	0	149	119	25	316	142	127	2	1	0	758	183	180	50.4
Leicester City	22	15.0	19	0	0	149	150	22	191	146	159	2	1	1	773	184	222	45.3
Fulham	27	15.0	36	1	0	145	133	22	290	108	138	4	3	0	741	226	212	51.6
Chelsea	24	14.0	34	2	2	144	160	27	236	130	149	2	0	2	760	191	183	51.1
Everton	26	15.0	33	0	0	142	145	27	239	145	175	0	2	0	774	186	228	44.9
Arsenal	23	14.0	23	0	0	139	155	19	230	108	128	1	2	1	737	154	190	44.8
West Ham	23	15.0	19	0	0	137	116	25	310	154	126	2	3	1	775	218	192	53.2
Brentford	24	15.0	21	0	0	129	161	26	254	138	132	3	1	2	734	243	214	53.2
Liverpool	24	14.0	12	1	0	121	116	29	326	123	126	0	3	0	833	180	189	48.8
Manchester City	21	14.0	11	1	0	108	116	21	307	91	102	3	2	1	699	187	136	57.9

 

Opposition stats

			Performance													Aerial Duels
Squad	# Pl	90s	CrdY	CrdR	2CrdY	Fls ▼	Fld	Off	Crs	Int	TklW	PKwon	PKcon	OG	Recov	Won	Lost	Won%
vs Crystal Palace	20	14.0	27	1	0	194	162	29	263	135	180	0	2	1	789	172	176	49.4
vs Aston Villa	23	15.0	26	1	1	186	172	20	234	126	134	0	2	0	780	213	204	51.1
vs Brentford	24	15.0	24	1	0	169	121	22	284	117	151	1	4	0	775	214	243	46.8
vs Nott'ham Forest	25	15.0	27	0	0	168	157	27	323	121	121	2	2	1	775	196	214	47.8
vs Wolves	26	15.0	28	0	0	165	153	15	270	125	162	2	2	0	763	185	170	52.1
vs Chelsea	24	14.0	21	0	0	163	137	16	245	142	157	0	2	0	734	183	191	48.9
vs Bournemouth	25	15.0	22	0	0	162	149	27	399	102	165	2	0	0	818	217	196	52.5
vs Arsenal	23	14.0	27	1	0	160	130	38	195	116	143	1	1	1	660	190	154	55.2
vs Leicester City	22	15.0	25	1	1	157	141	30	271	143	136	1	2	2	806	222	184	54.7
vs Newcastle Utd	24	15.0	30	1	0	155	157	31	244	136	161	0	2	1	768	167	204	45.0
vs Everton	26	15.0	30	0	0	155	138	18	329	112	146	2	0	1	804	228	186	55.1
vs Leeds United	24	14.0	24	1	1	147	173	26	231	164	149	1	2	1	830	200	206	49.3
vs Brighton	21	14.0	34	1	0	146	149	20	182	148	123	3	3	3	707	169	167	50.3
vs Southampton	26	15.0	27	0	0	145	146	22	270	123	172	0	0	0	869	254	211	54.6
vs Fulham	27	15.0	21	2	0	137	140	45	249	115	117	3	5	2	780	212	226	48.4
vs Tottenham	21	15.0	33	1	1	129	145	18	249	118	157	1	3	2	772	180	183	49.6
vs West Ham	23	15.0	30	0	0	122	131	15	259	117	131	3	4	0	791	192	218	46.8
vs Manchester City	21	14.0	30	1	0	122	105	25	127	115	107	2	3	1	586	136	187	42.1
vs Liverpool	24	14.0	22	0	0	122	108	22	195	152	158	3	0	2	760	189	180	51.2
vs Manchester Utd	22	14.0	17	0	0	106	155	12	262	159	102	1	1	2	729	169	188	47.3

 

These are from fbref.com for those wondering.

What I read from these stats is that we are combative, our games contain plenty of fouls, but we are also being punished more for our fouls than most other teams.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Teale's 'tache
Clarifications

[villa4europe]

Yes definitley

Surprised by it yesterday but it was something Gerrard installed in us, yesterday wasn't just bad or poorly timed tackles it was cynical

I noticed it around the Leeds game which was horrible and full of niggly momentum stopping fouls and though I **** hate Leeds but then we were on TV the week after and it was exactly the same (forest?) so suspected it was actually us, had a look on Google and I'm sure we'd only had 2 games all season that were below the PL average for fouls per game and that was vs arsenal and Man City

Would be shocked if its still the case after Christmas

[Pinebro]

Dirty Villa.

I like it.

Had a soft underbelly for far too long. Time to get nasty.

[Steero113]

Whilst I don't mind us becoming harder to beat by playing a little dirtier, the worry is that we will become known as a dirty team to officials and that will have a subconscious effect on refs when officiating our games in the future. 

(They already seem to be dogshit, so its a real worry that it could get worse). 

[DJBOB]

I think the Brighton game was an abberation though Villareal teams under Unai did what they had to do to get the game across the line.

Truthfully, Gerrard had us playing a very cynical brand of football in which we were usually behind and needed to win the ball back to try and win. Players were often left to defend in 1v1 or worse 1v2 situations and had to foul their way to stop the passage of play. 

If you look at yesterday, Brighton actually had more fouls than we did despite the yellow cards. Just the nature of what happens when you play from behind and are often outnumbered defending.

Edited November 14, 2022 by DJBOB

[Daweii]

I resent the use of the word "dirty". I prefer "shithouse experts" which is exactly what we are right now, and I don't mind it one bit. 

[Harkanon]

NO, we are not.  Have a look at Man City play and tell me they are not 'cheating' when they have lost the ball and ensure the other team do not counter effectively by cynically chopping, tugging.  Every single time.  The weakness they have is fast counter attacks as they pile forward, they know this so they will foul.  We have just not been very good at this side of the game and if we want to compete we need to be just as good at the underhanded

[TRO]

IMO by no stretch of the imagination.....I would say on the contrary, we have a soft underbelly, if anything,     or should I say, have had, because I think UE will change it.

However, in the tackle, I think we can be a bit clumsy and untidy....being a bit slow to the ball, can also, influence the eye....I think we are anything but, dirty.

Attracting yellows cards, is not the barometer to use, imo.....I know it might be all we have, but I think refs get influenced by clumsy/untidy challenges as opposed to dirty challenges.

 

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

Can we stop with discussions about dirtiness and time wasting etc. We get punished by refs for everything constantly compared to other teams who seemingly do whatever they want against us all the time, kick lumps out of us, dive, cheat, time waste etc…. they all get away with it against us and always have done.

I’m happy we are finally starting to toughen up and rough our opponents up a bit at last. For too long we’ve been a soft touch. 

Top man......spot on.

giving a bit back and they don't ******* like it.

[BOF]

There's different kinds of dirty. We're not hackers in the Burnley style. We're getting a bit more streetwise with time wasting. We go on about Martinez's shithousing but Sunday was only his 3rd card of the season. I think we were too nice up to now. Gerrard got us a bit nastier than Smith had us playing, and Emery will be able to get us doing it more cleverly and with nuance I'd say.

If the likes of Brighton start complaining about us then that's a good thing. There's nothing worse than being everyone's favourite opponent. You know you're becoming relevant again when everyone starts to hate you.

And this is only the beginning

[Laughable Chimp]

2 minutes ago, BOF said:

There's different kinds of dirty. We're not hackers in the Burnley style. We're getting a bit more streetwise with time wasting. We go on about Martinez's shithousing but Sunday was only his 3rd card of the season. I think we were too nice up to now. Gerrard got us a bit nastier than Smith had us playing, and Emery will be able to get us doing it more cleverly and with nuance I'd say.

If the likes of Brighton start complaining about us then that's a good thing. There's nothing worse than being everyone's favourite opponent. You know you're becoming relevant again when everyone starts to hate you.

And this is only the beginning

I mean a goalkeeper getting 3 yellow cards by this time is already a lot. No other pl keeper has accrued more than 3 yellow cards this season so far in comparison.

That said, from what I can find he’s actually on 2 yellows not 3.