jim Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 6 hours ago, tinker said: None of these were as experienced as Poch is , in fact we have nearly always elevated managers rather than having one who's dropping a level to manage us. Poch failed to win the league with that PSG team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I have been guilty in the past, during my time supporting Villa, of clinging to change the manager, in times, when the football has been poor. sadly, it has not always worked, where its got better In history.... we have made 12 successful changes, where the winning has got better......and 18 changes where the situation has got worse. so make your own mind up. Correct me if I’m wrong but in the last 30 years not a single Aston Villa manager has gone on to better, or even equivalent things. I don’t think it’s sacking managers too early that’s the problem… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 minute ago, jim said: Poch failed to win the league with that PSG team. That’s the big concern about poch for sure, that year was weird with galtier leaving after winning the league too. It wouldn’t be an issue for me if he was available to come to us though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted October 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2022 22 minutes ago, TRO said: I was dissappointed when Dean was sacked, but could see why, as I could with Steve Bruce.....They had over 100 games each to make a mark.....SG has had c35 league games I think there is a reasonable case there to be honest... to give more time. Dean had us in relegation Danger, but in hindsight, maybe it was wrong, who knows.....maybe we should learn from that. as for the Villa never get it right bit, I guess, that....Ron Saunders, Ron Atkinson, Brian Little,John Gregory, Graham Taylor....did get it right to a degree.....but in 33 managers, you check yourself and come up with your own conclusions, if mine don't suffice. Winning is the bench mark for success, so the record of winning games, features very high on my agenda....maybe other folk use other alternative measurements And yet you want Gerrard to have more time. I do notice your stance has changed. You kept going on about how his winning mentality was important and were convinced he'd be a success here, to now wanting him to stay for no real reason. Just because. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post duke313 Posted October 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jim said: Poch failed to win the league with that PSG team. This is not true. He replaced Tuchel in January 2021 and finished 2nd, 1 point behind champions Lille. He then won the league in 2021-22 season, before he left the club. Edited October 15, 2022 by duke313 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, penguin said: Correct me if I’m wrong but in the last 30 years not a single Aston Villa manager has gone on to better, or even equivalent things. I don’t think it’s sacking managers too early that’s the problem… It might not be....and you make a really valid point. We have never had a manager achieve a 50% win percentage.....Liverpool have had 10. I think recruitment, need to be forensically examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 minute ago, duke313 said: This is not true. He replaced Tuchel in January 2021 and finished 2nd, 1 point behind champions Lille. He then won the league in 2021-22 season before he left the club. You need a special manager to manage that PSG team with all the egos, so its irrelevant anyway. I can't believe some don't think Poch is good enough for us. I mean if he isn't, you the **** is?? I'd take it that if we fail to bring any success with Poch, you can start saying the players just aren't good enough, although I'm sure he would move on the shite, an see straight through the likes of McGinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Our board is basically hoping Gerrard can turn it around opposed to feeling he needs more time. Hope is not a good strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 minute ago, TRO said: It might not be....and you make a really valid point. We have never had a manager achieve a 50% win percentage.....Liverpool have had 10. I think recruitment, need to be forensically examined. Reality is, we have had no real success, so how are we going to tempt a manager of Klopps calibre to come here. This is why I think Purslow should be offering Poch whatever he wants to come here while he is free and his stock is still low. 15m a year should tempt him, an if he proves a success we would make his salary back this season no problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, DCJonah said: And yet you want Gerrard to have more time. I do notice your stance has changed. You kept going on about how his winning mentality was important and were convinced he'd be a success here, to now wanting him to stay for no real reason. Just because. I haven't hidden my stance at all....maybe its your interpretation, or looking for an angle. I have been steadfast in my view of Gerrards winning mentality, being nurtured in an enviroment of a winning mentality, football club, he would want to win a game of tiddly winks, but he don't want to lose either.......yeah, I'm jealous of that bit. I was convinced, he would be a success with us, and his tenure is not over yet, so I am not beating myself up until it is. I want him to stay, for the same reason Arteta stayed, and won around the battle at Arsenal, when the pitchforks were out. Don't confuse, my support of him, with the rancid Football, I have witnessed recently, he wants rid of that as much as we do........you seem to blame him directly for it.....I blame him indirectly, there is a sbtle difference. If the hierarchy, with all their opportunities for scrutiny, felt the same you, he would be gone, make not mistake there.....They are not procrastinating, at this juncture, they just don't agree with you, and the others, who want him gone, now. more games, in and a worsening of our situation, you might get your way. I am not ditching the raft and eating my friend, just yet.....a ship might come by. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 hour ago, duke313 said: This is not true. He replaced Tuchel in January 2021 and finished 2nd, 1 point behind champions Lille. He then won the league in 2021-22 season, before he left the club. Well it is because you just said it. They were also only a point behind then leaders Lyon when Tuchel was sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Villaphan04 Posted October 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2022 What I can say is that the last few weeks I've completely soured on possibly getting Rodgers in and want absolutely nothing to do with him anymore. Would be worried if he was the guy to replace Stevie 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 2 hours ago, penguin said: Correct me if I’m wrong but in the last 30 years not a single Aston Villa manager has gone on to better, or even equivalent things. I don’t think it’s sacking managers too early that’s the problem… Exactly this. Why would a decent manager come when you look at what villa does to Manager's careers. Who has gone into better things after leaving villa since.... **** hell a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 5 hours ago, TRO said: But these Owners with all the credibility to spare.....Hired SG...They must have known what they was getting a rookie manager....but maybe they are willing to give him development time, like we do players. You can ignore History all you like......my point is there is nothing to suggest, anything will change.....In our History only 19 managers out of 33 managed to exceed 40% win percentage.....and its clear to see the better ones was in batches, suggesting they had the better players, in that period. What you are saying is we are expecting to defy everything we have done in our History.....Thats fine, but to expect a youthful manager to do it, in c 35 games is pie in the sky....and our transfer business in the summer was questionable, in its execution. Its another argument, to say, we should have signed experience....but we have done that in the past, to no great avail. The problems lie on the pitch, for me.....and I agree, that SG has to fix them....managers are responsible for all things football, but they have to have the players to do that.....right now, he has too many, not showing much form. Ollie, is like a kettle with a hole in it, not fit forpurpose.....and others could be deemed the same....I looke at Bowen and Mbueno and compare with Bailey......far more aggression from the former, and at a far cheaper price. If you examine what we have done, is keep sacking managers, to no benefit. You say the past is the past.....but all those decision makers, thought they was doing the right thing, supported in most cases, by the fan base......There are no guarantee's a sacking will increase our ability to win games or turn misfiring players in to Europa league contenders. My view it is the players, where the fault lies, particularly the front 6 make up.....but I accept, its the managers job to get the best out of them, when he can't.....we have to look at surgery. I look at other teams like Brentford and Brighton and they have more intensity, urgency, physicality in the front 6, and our clear willingness to run, without the ball and with it.....I am not saying the manager has no part to play in that, but sometimes you can only take the horse to the water, you can't necessarily make it drink.....both clubs don't spend like we do either, but they buy EFFECTIVE players. Surely you realise how hypocritical this sounds, teams, there tempo and style are instilled by the manager. Good ones use a system that suits the players to achieve that, Gerrard has come down with his crappy PowerPoint and has no idea how to fix it when things do not work. He is absolutely out of his depth, no Plan B, no tactical nous, no system tweaks, no tempo, no style just a rigid formation that blatantly doesn’t work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Reality is, we have had no real success, so how are we going to tempt a manager of Klopps calibre to come here. This is why I think Purslow should be offering Poch whatever he wants to come here while he is free and his stock is still low. 15m a year should tempt him, an if he proves a success we would make his salary back this season no problem. Yep, paying Poch £15m wouldn’t even cost a penny because we’ll make £15m extra on league position and just additional interest & spending from fans. You’d need to offer him a transfer kitty of around £150m between Jan and the summer though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 15, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2022 4 hours ago, TRO said: Lets, have a look at all that. In Poch's last 2 jobs, he has had exceptional players and duly performed very well. In his previous 2 jobs to that, his performances was modest in comparison, with less quality players, so which Poch do we get?....secondly, there is no evidence, he would even come to us. Spend like what......He has bought 2 players for c £25 mill each, 1 for £17 Mill which most thought was a snip..and players for cover...The wages, I have no idea....if its beyond what the industry level is. Well one stubborn contract rebel has just signed a long terms deal, so that suggests, your stab, at the negative.....is just a stab. Michael Beale is a well respected coach and has so far, made a good fist of his transition to the top job.....but when the coaching under SG is talked about and MB was in sole charge, by all accounts from Martinez, we still presided over 12 defeats last season....hardly the stuff of huge celebration. I hope SG wins every game for the rest of the season and that has to be the aim....Feeling sorry for ourselves, breeds a puny attitude....In all the pockets of successful teams, they all displayed a fighting spirit, we have never been a Barcelona, in any time in our history, more a Brentford or a Newcastle.....but we are neither, at present......We are neither one thing or the other, thats my take on Identity.....our football philosophy, is caught between a rock and a hard place,and we are in no mans land. However.....I love this club, and I will support all in it......and hope we can find a semblance of form, to move on. Gerrard isn't good enough for us and imo time will tell us all this. I have seen this unfolding from the start, he was always Purslow's man and despite his winning mentality as a player he was always introverted and Carragher said this when Gerrard was appointed. UTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 15, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2022 3 hours ago, jim said: Poch failed to win the league with that PSG team. Well we're struggling to stay in our league with Gerrard. Poch is an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I’d love to know who is on Lange and Purslow’s list to replace Gerrard. It likely won’t be anyone mentioned here like Poch etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 My worry regarding poch is would he jump ship should a big job become available as did ancelotti at Everton ? Unai Emery would be an interesting one having seen how he developed Seville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, Eastie said: My worry regarding poch is would he jump ship should a big job become available as did ancelotti at Everton ? Unai Emery would be an interesting one having seen how he developed Seville Remember when people were worried that Gerrard would leave us for Liverpool? Let's cross that bridge when we get to it, if we even do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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