James Tarkowski

[pete101]

This is a tough one, he instantly improves us,

For me Ty's mistakes are definitely an issue but still think he is too good a player to move on

Konsa had bad season but the footballing brain is still brilliant and could be a star in future,

Chambers covers many positions,

Hause is the one that may become surplus to requirements,

For me with all that considered and hause moves on , the lad from Rangers might be the better option , young with potential and covers left back

[Tomaszk]

9 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I can't see Mings wanting to stay as a backup but I think Konsa will. If we can sell Mings for 31m

Has there been links to this price?

Can't see any club paying £30m.

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, pete101 said:

This is a tough one, he instantly improves us,

For me Ty's mistakes are definitely an issue but still think he is too good a player to move on

Konsa had bad season but the footballing brain is still brilliant and could be a star in future,

Chambers covers many positions,

Hause is the one that may become surplus to requirements,

For me with all that considered and hause moves on , the lad from Rangers might be the better option , young with potential and covers left back

I am guessing an attraction of signing Tarkowski is that he is free and would mean we could pocket the transfer fee of Mings. We can argue who is the better player but the bottom line is that they are quite similar players in terms of quality and style of play. The fact that Gerrard has mentioned on multiple occasions that he won't tolerate inconsistency and doesn't want inconsistent players makes me think that Mings days are numbered and Tarkowski could be his replacement

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Has there been links to this price?

Can't see any club paying £30m.

TBH, I can't see any club paying big money for Mings either albeit some on here have some crazy high valuations. There is a story doing the rounds saying Newcastle are interested and the fee mentioned is 30m. The real benefit of selling Mings would be the accounting profit this season. We will only have a small amount of amortisation costs on our books, maybe 7m/8m so any transfer fee above that would be profit this year.

[MWARLEY2]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

TBH, I can't see any club paying big money for Mings either albeit some on here have some crazy high valuations. There is a story doing the rounds saying Newcastle are interested and the fee mentioned is 30m. The real benefit of selling Mings would be the accounting profit this season. We will only have a small amount of amortisation costs on our books, maybe 7m/8m so any transfer fee above that would be profit this year.

Maybe this is part of balancing the books because we want to spend heavy in other areas. Wants an upgraded defence by buying a very consistent fast and strong centreback so we jump in on Carlos when we realise we have a good chance of getting him, continue to push for Tarkowski and then balance the books with selling Mings for around 25 mill. 

That way at a neutral cost you upgrade both left and right centreback positions ( arguably) rather than going for Tarkowski and upgrading one. 

Then any difference in salary can be covered by selling Hause or Konsa. 

For the first time in many years we seem to have joined up thinking plus a budget to make the most of our strategy. 

[Peter Griffin]

13 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said:

Maybe this is part of balancing the books because we want to spend heavy in other areas. Wants an upgraded defence by buying a very consistent fast and strong centreback so we jump in on Carlos when we realise we have a good chance of getting him, continue to push for Tarkowski and then balance the books with selling Mings for around 25 mill. 

That way at a neutral cost you upgrade both left and right centreback positions ( arguably) rather than going for Tarkowski and upgrading one. 

Then any difference in salary can be covered by selling Hause or Konsa. 

For the first time in many years we seem to have joined up thinking plus a budget to make the most of our strategy. 

100% agree with this. It shows excellent decision making at the club and, as you say, it is demonstrating joined up thinking which is something we have lacked for a long time. To be able to improve our defence and work the financials to leave money for other areas of the pitch, or other windows is brilliant business if we can pull it off

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

 

I can't see Mings wanting to stay as a backup

 

Not to cherrypick this quote but we HAVE to get past seeing our squad as starters and backups if we want to progress. Is John Stones a starter or backup at Man City? Are Konate and Matip starters or backups at Liverpool? We need a strong core of players competing for spots - so it’s less “who will stay as backup?” and more “who backs themselves to fight for a place?”

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Not to cherrypick this quote but we HAVE to get past seeing our squad as starters and backups if we want to progress. Is John Stones a starter or backup at Man City? Are Konate and Matip starters or backups at Liverpool? We need a strong core of players competing for spots - so it’s less “who will stay as backup?” and more “who backs themselves to fight for a place?”

Whilst I agree with this it’s difficult to keep everyone happy without Europe.  There’s just not enough games for rotation so certain players just have to wait for bad form, injuries or suspension to play.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa

[Mr_Dogg]

2 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Not to cherrypick this quote but we HAVE to get past seeing our squad as starters and backups if we want to progress. Is John Stones a starter or backup at Man City? Are Konate and Matip starters or backups at Liverpool? We need a strong core of players competing for spots - so it’s less “who will stay as backup?” and more “who backs themselves to fight for a place?”

It's difficult without European football, and we can't seem to get past the first couple of rounds of the cups either lately.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Adam2003 said:

Not to cherrypick this quote but we HAVE to get past seeing our squad as starters and backups if we want to progress. Is John Stones a starter or backup at Man City? Are Konate and Matip starters or backups at Liverpool? We need a strong core of players competing for spots - so it’s less “who will stay as backup?” and more “who backs themselves to fight for a place?”

Good point and ideally where we are going, not quite sure we are there yet but it is looking much better now than it has in a very very long time

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Not to cherrypick this quote but we HAVE to get past seeing our squad as starters and backups if we want to progress. Is John Stones a starter or backup at Man City? Are Konate and Matip starters or backups at Liverpool? We need a strong core of players competing for spots - so it’s less “who will stay as backup?” and more “who backs themselves to fight for a place?”

EXACTLY

we need multiple good players in each position if we are going to progress

the idea of "we've signed carlos so mings is off" is ridiculous

i don't want us to be in the position where we're forced to play hause, or carlos has to start even though he's got a knock

if we start next season with mings, carlos, chambers, konsa and maybe even one out of tarkowski and the rangers lad that's a pretty solid array of options at CB

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, tomav84 said:

EXACTLY

we need multiple good players in each position if we are going to progress

the idea of "we've signed carlos so mings is off" is ridiculous

i don't want us to be in the position where we're forced to play hause, or carlos has to start even though he's got a knock

if we start next season with mings, carlos, chambers, konsa and maybe even one out of tarkowski and the rangers lad that's a pretty solid array of options at CB

I don't think people are saying Mings is off because we signed Carlos, I think it is that Mings will be off if we sign another CB e.g. Tarkowski

[tomav84]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Whilst I agree with this it’s difficult to keep everyone happy without Europe.  There’s just not enough games for rotation so certain players just have to wait for bad form, injuries or suspension to play.

i think the likes of ty and tarkowski would believe in the project. i think theyre the sort that would be 100% professional about rotating. it also means we will have a stronger starting 11 in the cup games. as a player you want trophies and medals...i'll be disappointed if we dont make a serious push for one of the cups and having better depth will help with that

don't forget, win the carabao cup, you're in europe

[tomav84]

6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I don't think people are saying Mings is off because we signed Carlos, I think it is that Mings will be off if we sign another CB e.g. Tarkowski

my point still stands. if we sign tarkowski that gives us 5 quality CBs. it's a nice headache to have. 

edit: and if one were to leave, i think it would be konsa. he's been rotated by SG for chambers at times. i think SG wants more ball playing defenders and konsa aint one i;'m afraid

Edited May 27, 2022 by tomav84

[Adam2003]

12 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said:

we can't seem to get past the first couple of rounds of the cups either lately

Right but that’s the point, if the team we put out in the third round of the League Cup is Mings and Konsa rather than, say, Hause and Elmohamady then (a) we have more chance of progressing and (b) they have the chance to actually challenge for a spot.

Its not easy of course, running a football club is hard!

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i think the likes of ty and tarkowski would believe in the project. i think theyre the sort that would be 100% professional about rotating. it also means we will have a stronger starting 11 in the cup games. as a player you want trophies and medals...i'll be disappointed if we dont make a serious push for one of the cups and having better depth will help with that

don't forget, win the carabao cup, you're in europe

I would LOVE a cup and qualification for Europe via that. That would be a brilliant season for me. Would having Carlos, Mings and Tarkowski be a bit of a luxury, would be be better off putting some cash into upgrading Ollie to a striker with a first touch? I also like the idea of us signing Bassy and Bissouma in this window too

[Aston_Villan4]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I would LOVE a cup and qualification for Europe via that. That would be a brilliant season for me. Would having Carlos, Mings and Tarkowski be a bit of a luxury, would be be better off putting some cash into upgrading Ollie to a striker with a first touch? I also like the idea of us signing Bassy and Bissouma in this window too

I don’t think we need Tarkowski. Between Mings and Carlos as the starters and (hopefully) Bassey with Konsa and Chambers as backups that seems like a solid CB group. I’d like to put a sizable chunk towards an upgrade at striker.

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

I don’t think we need Tarkowski. Between Mings and Carlos as the starters and (hopefully) Bassey with Konsa and Chambers as backups that seems like a solid CB group. I’d like to put a sizable chunk towards an upgrade at striker.

I agree, we dont need Tarkowski. But if we could get 25m for Mings and replace him with Tarkowski that would give us a big chunk of cash to upgrade Ollie

EDIT: Also, if we swapped Mings for Tarkowski that would mean we could register circa 20m/25m profit for our accounts this year. This helps us with FFP and gives us more financial leverage in the transfer windows

Edited May 27, 2022 by Peter Griffin

[It's Your Round]

I’d rather keep Mings than have Tarkowski. 

[Laughable Chimp]

33 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Not to cherrypick this quote but we HAVE to get past seeing our squad as starters and backups if we want to progress. Is John Stones a starter or backup at Man City? Are Konate and Matip starters or backups at Liverpool? We need a strong core of players competing for spots - so it’s less “who will stay as backup?” and more “who backs themselves to fight for a place?”

The problem is then we could get another Targett situation. We're not a Man City or Liverpool where European games provides plenty of opportunity for rotation as well as backup players just being genuinely satisfied with being on the bench for them. If you have too many quality players for a position and some don't get enough game time, they'll push to leave us.