Popular Post Jas10 Posted July 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) Traore was excellent for us in his first season, a major improvement on the likes of El Ghazi and Trez who seem to get more admiration for some reason… 8 goals and 7 assists plus moments of magic in his debut season… seems overlooked… made our team play and look so much better too… provided a lot of entertainment in 20/21 season… Excellent performances against some of the perceived “big teams” such as Man Poo and Chelsea too… I think he’s under appreciated personally…. He remains one of the most talented/skilful players in the squad… People have written him off for being injured… probably frustrated with him more for a being a mercurial talent than a grafter or something… The boy has so much ability and hasn’t even been with us for long, we need depth and options from the bench… but people seemingly think he’s a waste of space and are desperate to get rid… I couldn’t disagree more… Sometimes it’s best to try and get the best out of existing players rather than be so quick to discard them… well, it’s the age of instant gratification I guess… Edited July 25, 2022 by Jas10 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StanBalaban Posted July 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, tinker said: I hope your right , French midfielders tend to struggle in the Premier League. With the exception of: Viera Petit Kante Makelele Pires Djorkaef Cabaye Ginola Dacourt Malbranque Cantona Desailly Ben Arfa Robert Nasri 3 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feidhlim Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: With the exception of: Viera Petit Kante Makelele Pires Djorkaef Cabaye Ginola Dacourt Malbranque Cantona Desailly Ben Arfa Robert Nasri You forgot Veretout 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 some Twitter links to McAtee from City but apparently City only want to loan him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: Traore was excellent for us in his first season, a major improvement on the likes of El Ghazi and Trez who seem to get more admiration for some reason… 8 goals and 7 assists plus moments of magic in his debut season… seems overlooked… made our team play and look so much better too… provided a lot of entertainment in 20/21 season… Excellent performances against some of the perceived “big teams” such as Man Poo and Chelsea too… I think he’s under appreciated personally…. He remains one of the most talented/skilful players in the squad… People have written him off for being injured… probably frustrated with him more for a being a mercurial talent than a grafter or something… The boy has so much ability and hasn’t even been with us for long, we need depth and options from the bench… but people seemingly think he’s a waste of space and are desperate to get rid… I couldn’t disagree more… Sometimes it’s best to try and get the best out of existing players rather than be so quick to discard them… well, it’s the age of instant gratification I guess… Mate I don't think many of us , if any disregard his ability and ability to be a game changer / match winner WHEN he is fit and WHEN he is in form? The question is, how often have these both been? I'm not advocating getting rid of him at all, I'm speaking purely from a realistic squad perspective. Hence is it fair to keep him here whilst he doesn't make the team or is fit? Or would he be better of somewhere where he is the star of the show and even if he gets injured, he comes straight back in as soon as fit? I like having him in the squad as a wildcard, but when it comes to necessity and priorities, I don't think we'd necessarily be much weaker without him, based on our current squad. I view him as a luxury player, but a luxury I like having. We also know that in optimising the squad for what we want to do, a couple who we might not necessarily want to go, will have to, both for squad size and to balance books. If we can afford to keep him around and happy I don't have a problem. Same with Hause At the same time, my words could bite me in the arse were we to pick up a few injuries. After all we want to have runs in Cups and eventually Europe etc. Edited July 25, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Mate I don't think many of us , if any disregard his ability and ability to be a game changer / match winner WHEN he is fit and WHEN he is in form? The question is, how often have these both been? I'm not advocating getting rid of him at all, I'm speaking purely from a realistic squad perspective. Hence is it fair to keep him here whilst he doesn't make the team or is fit? Or would he be better of somewhere where he is the star of the show and even if he gets injured, he comes straight back in as soon as fit? I like having him in the squad as a wildcard, but when it comes to necessity and priorities, I don't think we'd necessarily be much weaker without him, based on our current squad. I view him as a luxury player, but a luxury I like having. We also know that in optimising the squad for what we want to do, a couple who we might not necessarily want to go, will have to, both for squad size and to balance books. If we can afford to keep him around and happy I don't have a problem. Same with Hause At the same time, my words could bite me in the arse were we to pick up a few injuries. After all we want to have runs in Cups and eventually Europe etc. Sorry mate, my comment wasn’t aimed squarely at you. I don’t see you as one of the guys who are overly critical of him but was also a little saddened by your comment I do think there are many people that disregard what he can do/bring and just generally seem to dislike him for some reason… I wouldn’t compare him to Hause either. It’s not a comparable situation imo as Kortney has become surplus whereas we don’t have a heap of quality options in attack. I, for one, would be happy for BT to step in if we’re ever without Coutinho and Buendia at times… He’s not been with us for all that long but I think he was really good in his first season and gave us something different - I think that’s key. Having different options and types in the squad can be a real asset, he is very skilled but I don’t see him as a first choice player anyway. It’s not like I’m clamouring for him to be a fixture in the team. For me, it was refreshing to see a technically superior player in the team after having to endure players such as El Ghazi and Trez… he was a good replacement… As far as injuries go, I think there can be a lack of understanding and maybe even compassion. The guy had to have groin surgery, I don’t think it was something that was widely known or reported on either. Last season was a write off for sure, due to injury, but his first season was hugely encouraging imo. He probably got more hate & criticism for appearing in a major tournament for his country and hardly appearing for us, but how many players don’t prioritise their national team over club team? Just look at the previous Martinez and Buendia antics. That seems to have been forgotten very quickly, not that it bothered me. He made a significant impact. He had a great first season and made it more entertaining and enjoyable, at times when we were struggling too. Got a few goals out of nowhere and helped us do better in games, against top sides too. He was excellent against Chelsea in the final game, when fans were allowed back at VP. If I remember correctly, he scored in both games against Man Poo and one was an absolute cracker! That first half against Burnley was some of the best football we’d played since getting promoted and BT was a major part of that, alongside JG and Barkley… I think we (football fans) are generally quite fickle and reactionary… no matter how much we try and deny it. Just look how easily and quickly we change our minds on things. For example, look at Bailey. There have been many people (not just here, I don’t just observe thoughts and opinions on this forum) who had completely written him off and even wanted rid of him. Now, after a good performance in the second half of a preseason friendly, people are raving about him… not exactly a balanced view is it? That’s just one small example anyway… We need quality and options in the squad, having talented players to either bring off the bench or rotate in or cover for injured/suspended players is a major advantage. Going back to your comment. When we saw plenty of him, in only that first season, he did make an impact quite often and he did make tangible contributions, namely goals, assists and skills, beating his man etc. he was an obvious upgrade on what we previously had… Maybe recency bias comes into it too. There are too many people that get angry, frustrated and overly critical of players and even turn their back on some of them too quickly without taking several factors into account… It could also be a question of “taste” here too… I can’t lie… what I love most about football is the entertainment factor, to see skilled and technically proficient players show what they can do… I’ve always been drawn more to those kinds of players rather than the grafter types that make up for a deficiency in skill/talent/technique by running harder and putting more energy into games. The best players are the ones that have a blend of both (but also heavily lean toward the technical side imo too). Some people prefer those grafter types and would rather see a player running around for 90 mins and diving into tackles rather than produce the odd moment of sublime skill… I think you need a balance and mix of these sort of players in a good team anyway but talent and effort have to go hand in hand. But to be “elite” or anywhere close, technical proficiency is a must… I don’t know, I think people are harsher on him than most of our players… Why are we so desperate to offload players that can make a contribution and give us depth while at the same time calling it a “squad game?”. Seems like we’re selective with who we think will improve with a “proper preseason” too… Anyway after all this he’s probably getting sold anyway Edited July 25, 2022 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I love Bertie, love his magic feet. But I kinda agree. Whats his future here? Bailey plays on the right as good as Bertie imho. Happy to have him stick around as an attacking option but its tough to see him breaking into the starting 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted July 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, StanBalaban said: With the exception of: Viera Petit Kante Makelele Pires Djorkaef Cabaye Ginola Dacourt Malbranque Cantona Desailly Ben Arfa Robert Nasri Yes but apart from Vieira, Petit, Kante, Makelele, Pires, Djorkaeff, Cabaye, Ginola, Dacourt, Malbranque, Cantona, Desailly, Ben Arfa, Robert, and Nasri... what have French midfielders ever done for the Premier League? Edited July 25, 2022 by Troglodyte 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Sorry mate, my comment wasn’t aimed squarely at you. I don’t see you as one of the guys who are overly critical of him but was also a little saddened by your comment I do think there are many people that disregard what he can do/bring and just generally seem to dislike him for some reason… I wouldn’t compare him to Hause either. It’s not a comparable situation imo as Kortney has become surplus whereas we don’t have a heap of quality options in attack. I, for one, would be happy for BT to step in if we’re ever without Coutinho and Buendia at times… He’s not been with us for all that long but I think he was really good in his first season and gave us something different - I think that’s key. Having different options and types in the squad can be a real asset, he is very skilled but I don’t see him as a first choice player anyway. It’s not like I’m clamouring for him to be a fixture in the team. For me, it was refreshing to see a technically superior player in the team after having to endure players such as El Ghazi and Trez… he was a good replacement… As far as injuries go, I think there can be a lack of understanding and maybe even compassion. The guy had to have groin surgery, I don’t think it was something that was widely known or reported on either. Last season was a write off for sure, due to injury, but his first season was hugely encouraging imo. He probably got more hate & criticism for appearing in a major tournament for his country and hardly appearing for us, but how many players don’t prioritise their national team over club team? Just look at the previous Martinez and Buendia antics. That seems to have been forgotten very quickly, not that it bothered me. He made a significant impact. He had a great first season and made it more entertaining and enjoyable, at times when we were struggling too. Got a few goals out of nowhere and helped us do better in games, against top sides too. He was excellent against Chelsea in the final game, when fans were allowed back at VP. If I remember correctly, he scored in both games against Man Poo and one was an absolute cracker! That first half against Burnley was some of the best football we’d played since getting promoted and BT was a major part of that, alongside JG and Barkley… I think we (football fans) are generally quite fickle and reactionary… no matter how much we try and deny it. Just look how easily and quickly we change our minds on things. For example, look at Bailey. There have been many people (not just here, I don’t just observe thoughts and opinions on this forum) who had completely written him off and even wanted rid of him. Now, after a good performance in the second half of a preseason friendly, people are raving about him… not exactly a balanced view is it? That’s just one small example anyway… We need quality and options in the squad, having talented players to either bring off the bench or rotate in or cover for injured/suspended players is a major advantage. Going back to your comment. When we saw plenty of him, in only that first season, he did make an impact quite often and he did make tangible contributions, namely goals, assists and skills, beating his man etc. he was an obvious upgrade on what we previously had… Maybe recency bias comes into it too. There are too many people that get angry, frustrated and overly critical of players and even turn their back on some of them too quickly without taking several factors into account… It could also be a question of “taste” here too… I can’t lie… what I love most about football is the entertainment factor, to see skilled and technically proficient players show what they can do… I’ve always been drawn more to those kinds of players rather than the grafter types that make up for a deficiency in skill/talent/technique by running harder and putting more energy into games. The best players are the ones that have a blend of both (but also heavily lean toward the technical side imo too). Some people prefer those grafter types and would rather see a player running around for 90 mins and diving into tackles rather than produce the odd moment of sublime skill… I think you need a balance and mix of these sort of players in a good team anyway but talent and effort have to go hand in hand. But to be “elite” or anywhere close, technical proficiency is a must… I don’t know, I think people are harsher on him than most of our players… Why are we so desperate to offload players that can make a contribution and give us depth while at the same time calling it a “squad game?”. Seems like we’re selective with who we think will improve with a “proper preseason” too… Anyway after all this he’s probably getting sold anyway Lol I know how much you love Bertie so I was even hesitant to make the initial comment in the first place 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Lol I know how much you love Bertie so I was even hesitant to make the initial comment in the first place I don’t love him THAT much. But I appreciate his talent and skill and feel he is too harshly treated or criticised. So I feel more inclined to defend him and I really enjoyed his first season… I was happy for us to have such a skilled player. Have been looking forward to his future contributions… a shame he was injured for almost the entirety of last season. Another who could benefit from proper conditioning and a proper preseason, the last one was an embarrassment. He genuinely delights and entertains with his moments of sublime skill and finishing… Again, I haven’t said he should be a starter. But I think he is quality cover and a great rotation option. Buendia is probably my favourite player in the squad or the one I rate most highly in terms of contribution. I love Martinez too but I’m more “interested” in the outfield players. Coutinho is class but I think he’s better at scoring and Buendia is better at creating. No one has the perfect weight of pass that Emi has and he can provide through balls with ease, it’s not even difficult for him So… I’m pissed off that Emi is not a regular starter! We need both in the side and I want to see us try Bailey as a CF as I am getting fed up with our strikers and see them more as those “grafters” than technical players. Although, I was a big fan of Watkins in his first season too (for different reasons) and am saddened by his drop off… I thought he could potentially be the solution to our CF woes… Just imagine a skilful striker linking with our no. 10s, it would be art Neither of them look like cultured or varied finishers anyway and Ings just hasn’t lived up to reputation. He’s so slow too… so sluggish and hasn’t looked clinical for us. Not the player who was at Southampton… I just like us having as many high quality, technical players in the squad. It’s how we will pass and keep the ball better and be more hard to deal with and creative and deadly in attack too. It benefits us… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I think Dani Ceballos could be a decent signing if we get him for bargain and we're desperate for a midfielder. No future at Madrid for him and I think they'd accept most offers to take his contract on. Or even a loan. Loads of ability, pretty versatile, has big confidence on the ball which we still lack throughout the side. He'll be on a fat wedge but we could make it work if we pay the right price. Wouldn't be a #1 choice but very available as Madrid won't use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Traore will definitely go if a sizeable bid comes in. Shame but he just doesn’t suit Gerrard’s style of play or player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Just now, DakotaVilla said: Traore will definitely go if a sizeable bid comes in. No danger of that then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Traore is very talented. But he only really show flashes. He'll go on a mazy run beat 3 players and nearly score, then won't complete a pass for 30 minutes. I find him very frustrating. I wouldn't say his first season was excellent, the goals and assists figures were solid. But the performances were a mixed bag. That season the team's best form was with Trezguet on the right, keeping Traore out until Trez got covid. When Jack got injured, Traore wasn't able to get anywhere near filling the void. He never bossed a game, or even looked a consistent threat for 90 minutes. He got dropped at one point so we could play Trez and El-Ghazi. I think people have selective memories when it comes to certain players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, Jas10 said: No, another inconsistent central midfielder, that has shit defensive stats! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 13 minutes ago, Jas10 said: much prefer Lo Celso if we are going after Spurs midfielders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 N'Dombele is trash 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 No thanks on N'Dombele. In fact doing any business with Levy should be questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 13 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said: As much as I like the guy, there has Never been a plan regarding how to use him and Watkins together Maybe by accident, but I think they were starting to figure out how to work together towards the end of the season. To repeat what I've said before, I think the original plan was that Ings was supposed to be the central striker while Watkins, because he played on the left at Brentford, was expected to play off of Ings. That clearly didn't work. What we saw in a few games late last season was Watkins running the channels that he used to run in the centre while Ings played in the hole/out wide and provided assists because of it. That seemed to work better. It was a small sample of games, but it's worth watching for this year. Of course, when you have Bueni, Coutinho, a healthy Bailey, and maybe Traore also competing for forward spots, the opportunities for Ings and Watkins to play together will be reduced. Yes, we signed Ings to be an out-and-out striker, but he showed that he can play provider last year. Sometimes players shift roles over their career. Different situation, but think of Desailly, who switched between centre back and midfielder for Milan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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