Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Nowt wrong with that, when a manager is fresh to a side and hasn't had the chance to put down their style and influence, there's every need for patience. 

The average time a Premier league manager spends in a job is two years and one month - and that's slightly skewed by the occasional long timer (Pep and Klopp) - Gerrard is almost a year in - he's past the point where he's a new manager trying to put in the groundwork.

It's not an act of bandwagoning to initially ask for patience then once that patience has been granted, evaluate performance and make a judgement - that's good logical thinking.

How Long is patience?.....How do we know how long it takes, if we don't know the warts and all.

I know, these results, can't continue indefinately.....but as you say 2 years 1 month is a bit different to just under 12 months and losing your trusted coach and 2 major signings to boot.

 

[lexicon]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yeah, in frustrating times, it don't wash.......Thats why likes of Josh Kroenke are where they are, thats why guys like Musk, defy adversity and stick at it.....They have a level of perseverence, some of us can only dream of.

You could also have said 7 wins in 24....which is equally, not good, but its doesn't feed the narrative does it.....I guess I am splitting hairs here.....The results are not defendable.

When you are on the way back from  dark times, every flash of positivity, is welcome, not just in football, every walk of life......Teams when they are flying, have confidence, and desire, and things go for you, we don't have that, but failing to see shards of light, is defeatism in my book, I watch the games I see little things denying us moving forward, getting those details and little decisions right, makes a difference, it changes pictures.......The process to success is not just black and white, its accumulating positive activity and turning it in to an outcome.....and extinguishing the negativity along the way.

I Remember John Gregory, once saying in his inimitable bouts of humour, I am developing web feet, to stamp out all the fires here....we have no idea what these managers have to deal with, in things conspiring against them......I like to cut them slack, and give it time, to judge properly.

I think the games against Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea, showed signs of resilience....Against Leeds and Forest, it was rancid, but we still got points away from home....and the 10 men argument is a weak one too, because we traditonally struggle against 10 men.

 

Just take his overall win percentage then, which is 33.3% - which is Dr. Jo and GTmk2 territory. This isn't a 'narrative' - it's the numbers. 

[KMitch]

Unfortunately, if he hasn't been sacked by this point, I don't see him going before the WC break, if at all this season.  Unless Villa Park is calling for his head in unison, he'll continue to get more and more chances like this.  The reaction after the final whistle yesterday was not enough.  

[Sulberto21]

1 minute ago, KMitch said:

Unfortunately, if he hasn't been sacked by this point, I don't see him going before the WC break, if at all this season.  Unless Villa Park is calling for his head in unison, he'll continue to get more and more chances like this.  The reaction after the final whistle yesterday was not enough.  

To be fair though the ground was half empty before the final whistle. That in itself is impactful. Imo. 

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, KMitch said:

Unfortunately, if he hasn't been sacked by this point, I don't see him going before the WC break, if at all this season.  Unless Villa Park is calling for his head in unison, he'll continue to get more and more chances like this.  The reaction after the final whistle yesterday was not enough.  

You heard the man, it's cabbage time. Give the younger kids some brussels sprouts or something if they're not strong enough for the big guns. 

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

9 games doesn't either.

Look, you could be right, he has to go, but they said that about Arteta too......and lets not come out with the bollox, that its different, its not.....them fans wanted him out, more than we want SG out.

Fortunes, do not always relate to the work being done, in training.....Not when, you want it to, fortunes changing can be adhoc.

We played some good stuff on Sunday.....we also made some poor decisions, ( McGinn trying to fire throught the keeper, when Ings was ready for a tap in) and we also made some stupid rickets....Mings and Martinez....2 of our most trusted servants.

I don't think, there is enough evidence, thats my point......I think there is enough conjecture, or supposition, but thats all......That is not the same as saying everything is ok, because its not.

 

Only because you choose to ignore it. 

Look at all the stats people have been posting. It's been awful for a long time. We've gone backwards. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I think it’s getting to the stage where anybody that still thinks Stevie G is the right man for this job is on the wind up!

 

[OutByEaster?]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I know, these results, can't continue indefinitely.....but as you say 2 years 1 month is a bit different to just under 12 months and losing your trusted coach and 2 major signings to boot.

You're right, the results can't carry on indefinitely, and I think at some point, the thing with those results is how quickly they become a threat to our survival in this league - the next two games have an impact on that. We have nine more games to come against the super league six clubs - on current form, we'll get maybe two points out of those - that will leave us needing 27 points from the remaining 19 games - that means we need to start winning games quickly. There is an urgency here.

 

[TRO]

On 17/10/2022 at 15:29, nick76 said:

You can go back through my posts, I have said a number of times that the only positive he’s done is some of the top quality players he’s recruited.  I have said repeatedly that I see nothing on the pitch and that’s his main job.  It doesn’t how well he does on recruiting if he can’t get them to perform on the pitch then it makes not difference. He’s been unlucky with Kamara and Carlos but apart from the start he hasn’t got anything out of Coutinho and the same can be said about Digne.  Great that he gets these top players in, no point if he can’t get them to perform.

As for profile of the club, I’m not as convinced by this now.  Yes for some players recruitment wise it’s been great but otherwise not really.

 1) just without rose tinted glasses has Lampard raised Everton’s profile…not really and it’s a very similar comparison to Gerrard with us

2) Gerrard even now is only associated with Liverpool

3) with the poor football and disconnect with fans, the bigger community of football have backed Gerrard or at least separated him from Villa somewhat from his media buddies to the influential international Liverpool fan base.  “Gerrard’s too good for us”

4) I don’t think we’ve really marketed the Gerrard brand as much as thought we would as a club.  Maybe the market wasn’t really there.

It doesn’t feel like he has raised the profile of the club, in fact because of the football it’s been a bit negative because of the love for Gerrard as a player that surely it can’t be his fault somewhat narrative.

Cant argue with some of the recruitment though and I have praised him for that but his media savvy bores the tears out of me and on the pitch has been poor.

Apart from recruitment it’s because there are no other positives.  I can’t create miracles.

Or reality of not seeing anything, means he changed his mind which is anybodies right.  If you don’t see it time and time again then you may call it a bandwagon but it might just be based on reality.

 

Ok question for you and I don’t want a “hope” or blind faith answer 

Forget what you hope for the future from Gerrard because of his “winning mentality”.  

Forget what the players aren’t doing.

Forget “we don’t see behind the scenes”.  

What are you seeing now and in the past six months on the pitch that convinces you he can turn this around???

What are you seeing specifically from Gerrard?

I don’t see it! and I’m sick of hearing what he could do “if” or it’s the players.  What is Gerrard doing on the pitch to keep his job that we as a fan can see? I can’t anything

Nick, don't let the frustration of poor results get the better of you.

Some of the things you see as cast in stone....I don't.

I see the same poor play, as you do, I am just not as sure as you, who is TOTALLY responsible......I think its a combination of blame, not jut one area.....I think the players are as much, if not more to blame, than the manager.

Was Mings error, Gerrards fault?.....that once again passed the initiative to Chelsea.

Your narrative, is comical Nick.......You are asking me to dump all the things, that are central to me, in having doubts about your claims.....nice try.

• When, McGinn failed to find Ings and just blasted an easy chance at the keeper, was that Gerrards fault?
• When Kepa pulled off a worldie from Ings, was that gerrards fault?
• When When Mings failed to connect with a routine header, when Ramsey Failed to get a strong challenge in and Konsa was unaware of the position of Mount, just ball watching, was that Gerrards fault
• Was Martinez fidgeting on the line trying to cover all the goal, and then went to the right, only for Mount to put it in , much where martinez was originally standing, was that Gerrards fault.
• Was it Gerrards Fault when Luiz, missed a shot directly in front of Goal.

as you might guess.....I am sick of hearing every fault or negative we can muster, all leads back to Steven Gerrard.

I wish he would walk, and throw the towel in.....but I guess, he is made of more than that....oh no doubt, that leads in to the compo, neggie.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Reading through this thread, I'm finding it really hard to understand, why you @TRO a veteran villa fan, would continue to back a manager, (not forgetting him being a liverpool player, no villa legend), who just cannot get a tune out of this team and is leading us towards relegation with the rubbish of the league. 1 year and nothings changed, why continue, I'm baffled?

I am equally baffled you just blame him.....actually the funny thing is, as each game passes and time rolls on, and the same results manifest themselves, I might come to agree with you all.

Right now.....I am not so sure, you are all right.

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything......otherwise Dennis Mortimer, would have been my choice.

Ron Saunders was a scouser

Peter Withe was a scouser

Tony Morley, nearly a scouser

Ron Atkinson, born in Liverpool

This argument is lowbrow, if I may say so.

[sne]

Absolutely fascinating how much this thread resembles the Steve Bruce thread.

Maybe one day given enough time Gerrard might turn into head coach close to the level Bruce is. Doubt he has the patience for it thou.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You're right, the results can't carry on indefinitely, and I think at some point, the thing with those results is how quickly they become a threat to our survival in this league - the next two games have an impact on that. We have nine more games to come against the super league six clubs - on current form, we'll get maybe two points out of those - that will leave us needing 27 points from the remaining 19 games - that means we need to start winning games quickly. There is an urgency here.

 

I don't disagree, with any of that Brian.....my beef is with claims, that are unsubstantiated.

I have clearly said, we cannot put our League status in jeopardy.

However, I still think we have problems other than just Manager, so if we do succumb to culling him, I hope the new guy gets the support, to make the changes required to give us hope.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Nick, don't let the frustration of poor results get the better of you.

Some of the things you see as cast in stone....I don't.

I see the same poor play, as you do, I am just not as sure as you, who is TOTALLY responsible......I think its a combination of blame, not jut one area.....I think the players are as much, if not more to blame, than the players.

Was Mings error, Gerrrds fault?.....that once again passed the initiative to Chelsea.

Your narrative, is comical Nick.......You are asking me to dump all the things, that are central to me, in having doubts about your claims.....nice try.

• When, McGinn failed to find Ings and just blasted an easy chance at the keeper, was that Gerrards fault?
• When Kepa pulled of a worldie from Ings, was that gerrards fault?
• When When Mings failed to connect with a routine header, when Ramsey Failed to get a strong challenge in and Konsa was unaware of the position of Mount, just ball watching, was that Gerrards fault
• Was Martinez fidgeting on the line trying to cover all the goal, and then went to the right, only for Mount to put it in , much where martinez was originally standing, was that Gerrards fault.
• Was it Gerrards Fault when Luiz, missed a shot directly in front of Goal.

as you might guess.....I am sick of hearing every fault or negative we can muster, all leads back to Steven Gerrard.

I wish he would walk, and throw the towel in.....but I guess, he is made of more than that....oh no doubt, that leads in to the compo, neggie.

 

You still missed the question.  Let’s say all that is correct for arguments sake.  

My question is what is Gerrard doing to benefit the team on the pitch?  Forget what you think he could do.  If the players throughout his reign consistently doing the same issues, then what is the point of having Gerrard here if he’s having no positive impact on the pitch? 2022 is not a short period to look at and we aren’t seeing differences.  If he not improving things then why have him here?  Most of these players aren’t going anywhere and we are going to have large scale buys so what is the answer if the manager adds no positive impact to on the pitch?

[Zatman]

31 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Reading through this thread, I'm finding it really hard to understand, why you @TRO a veteran villa fan, would continue to back a manager, (not forgetting him being a liverpool player, no villa legend), who just cannot get a tune out of this team and is leading us towards relegation with the rubbish of the league. 1 year and nothings changed, why continue, I'm baffled?

I suppose when you are so wrong about the previous 2 managers you need to cling onto any false hope you can find

[danceoftheshamen]

That result was by-en-large substandard finishing and Football League level (& quite a low one at that) control & quality from a few of our players. Unfortunately there really is not a lot Gerrard can do about that. He can however drop players for repeatedly doing the same & give a go to others. The issue is that it's our "big" players doing it... McGinn, Watkins, Coutihno & others. The quality some of them are showing is way below the level it should be at. 

I was watching the difference with City against Liverpool&  in similar situations the control of those players is instant and clearly what you would expect at Premier League level. It made a huge difference to the attacking threat. 

So for me, on Sunday at least, it was down to poor quality from the players when thye should be much better, for the 1st hour. The rest of the game after 0-2 was frankly appaling however and that was not helped by Gerrards Substitutions in my view.

To play well, at home and lose 0-2 is very concerning however. Normally the saying is "if you play badly & win it's the sign of a good team" so quite what "if you play well & still lose" says I really don't know.

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think it’s getting to the stage where anybody that still thinks Stevie G is the right man for this job is on the wind up!

 

Well if thats the case....and with the fabulous owners we have.....we just have to watch the news channels.

[Ingram85]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

Absolutely fascinating how much this thread resembles the Steve Bruce thread.

Maybe one day given enough time Gerrard might turn into head coach close to the level Bruce is. Doubt he has the patience for it thou.

Seems to be the same voices who didn’t want Bruce to go and were less forgiving to Smith that have nailed their flag to ship Gerrard as well. Absolutely baffling.

[Jas10]

6 minutes ago, sne said:

Absolutely fascinating how much this thread resembles the Steve Bruce thread.

Maybe one day given enough time Gerrard might turn into head coach close to the level Bruce is. Doubt he has the patience for it thou.

TRO’s dream manager:

[Jas10]

 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You still missed the question.  Let’s say all that is correct for arguments sake.  

My question is what is Gerrard doing to benefit the team on the pitch?  Forget what you think he could do.  If the players throughout his reign consistently doing the same issues, then what is the point of having Gerrard here if he’s having no positive impact on the pitch? 2022 is not a short period to look at and we aren’t seeing differences.  If he not improving things then why have him here?  Most of these players aren’t going anywhere and we are going to have large scale buys so what is the answer if the manager adds no positive impact to on the pitch?

What if he is doing all the right things at BMH .....all the things that a new manager would do....but the players are still not executing, what he asking, what then?

You are just suggesting change.....to eliminate things that maybe are not the source of the problem.....just saying.

On the other hand, you could be right, just changing manager, might just be the flip, they need.

costly excercise, if is it doesn't work, like last time...but hey ho.