Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, viivvaa66 said:

Once up a time there were a manager that was disliked by the fan, but later he showed he was the real deal, therefore all other disliked manager will become good manager. Is that your argument?

Is there something in a match that could be consider the managers fault/responsibility, or is all down to the players, in your view? Or are you saying that the manager have to replace every player in the squad before any responsibility is directed his way? 

I am struggling, with this, if I am honest....I don't understand, the dislike of any of our managers, we don't even know then for gods sake.......there was a clear dislike of Gerrard in some quarters from day 1.....so make of that what you like.

Lets get this clear....bar for some poor decisions being made by certain players, on sunday, we could have won that......That result, was the gift, that keeps on giving.

There was enough good play, in periods of the game, to have made that result reversed.....I saw poor decisions, that only the player can be responsible for.....but equally, enough good play, with good desisions to have won it.

[sharkyvilla]

This is agony, he's going to be here forever isn't he?

[duke313]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am struggling, with this, if I am honest....I don't understand, the dislike of any of our managers, we don't even know then for gods sake.......there was a clear dislike of Gerrard in some quarters from day 1.....so make of that what you like.

Lets get this clear....bar for some poor decisions being made by certain players, on sunday, we could have won that......That result, was the gift, that keeps on giving.

There was enough good play, in periods of the game, to have made that result reversed.....I saw poor decisions, that only the player can be responsible for.....but equally, enough good play, with good desisions to have won it.

This dislike for Gerrard on this board is near universal. That should tell you all you need.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Are you kidding? 10 men, flapping keeper….

Yeah it’s the managers job to change that and he hasn’t been able to do it under his tenure, what’s suddenly going to change?

Gerrard’s buys!  Gerrard still plays him from the start more often than not.

I don’t understand the constant misdirection from Gerrard’s fault on a majority of these issues.  I get there are other issues at the club and with the players but I don’t see what Gerrard is offering us at all.  He’s not getting it out of the players, he only gets part performances out of the team against the Sky6 but we still generally lose and we are poor most other games against lesser teams.  

For all the traits a manager/coach has to have in relation to on the pitch he’s providing nothing.  The mentality of the players, tactics, team picking, subs, outwitting opposing managers….the list can go on.  He’s not having an impact on this team and that’s his job!

Yeah....and I am questioning that, but also questioning some of the speculative stuff aimed at him....one thing at a time eh

Nick, you accuse me of overly defending him, but its only because, some of the stuff, note, some of the stuff, I find speculative and in some cases personal.

but equally, considering you claim to be on the fence, when he first come, you have not being able to find any positives to my knowledge, despite him being hugely influential in signing 2 champions league calibre players( albeit out injuried, is that his fault too)......I even recall the claims from some, he has lifted the profile of the club, by the media talk.....that has been lost on some.

Now, I can't tell people how to think, but I do find it, questionable, when i get accused of overly defending him, and others find no positives of any description to balance the perspective.....that smacks of bias mate.

I would completely get someone still wanting him out, but able to find a positive, amongst the brambles.....that's rare to find.

Its funny one poster on here, who is totally for him being removed had the gaul, to suggest in his formative , days with us , to have patience with him.....how Bandwagons can affect folk.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, duke313 said:

This dislike for Gerrard on this board is near universal. That should tell you all you need.

It does.

[lexicon]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am struggling, with this, if I am honest....I don't understand, the dislike of any of our managers, we don't even know then for gods sake.......there was a clear dislike of Gerrard in some quarters from day 1.....so make of that what you like.

Lets get this clear....bar for some poor decisions being made by certain players, on sunday, we could have won that......That result, was the gift, that keeps on giving.

There was enough good play, in periods of the game, to have made that result reversed.....I saw poor decisions, that only the player can be responsible for.....but equally, enough good play, with good desisions to have won it.

The 'could've would've should've' doesn't wash when you've got 4 wins in 21 games, TRO.

Besides, it's probably the only 45 minutes this season that you could've called us unlucky, really. 

His record is abysmal and he has to go. 

[The Fun Factory]

19 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

This is agony, he's going to be here forever isn't he?

Mate, no Villa manager has last more than 4 years since MON. 2 years gets you a long service medal.

[Folski]

44 minutes ago, nick76 said:

3 years is fine, if it works out the great the manager deserves a pay rise.  If it fails it’s not the biggest pay out that could seriously hurt a club.  I don’t paying off Gerrard is the biggest issue.

The bigger issue is that we are a point above the drop zone with Leicester having enough quality to stay up,  2 newly promoted teams 3 & 4 points ahead of us and having played 6 of the bottom 8 in the 10 games we've played.

[daft]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

The press are the ones backing him as his mates

Exactly. My point stands.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Ok It wasn't what I was really expecting you answer to be......but I do get your drift.

I am not going to comment on every line......but how can you be sure, he and his coaches are not saying much of that....we simply don't know.

How can you be sure, the players not always doing what's been asked of them......He has limited options.

Take one player out and you lose some attributes to gain others......but the team loses attributes,as a whole, it's a trade off, the better teams, have to make less.

Option A - they aren't.

Option B - they are and aren't getting through to the players.

Either way they're failing to do their job. 

[punkiller1981]

The big worry for me with gerrard is the perslow seems to have gone all in with him moved away from the recruitment model we had been working too bringing in players like Phil and digne. I can honestly see a situation where some of our better young players get frozen out and move on elsewhere and go on to have careers better than they would staying at Villa. I have a feel over Martin o neill with this one going for expensive experience that offers little, players the same 11 week in week out despite bloating the squad looking for the quick fix. Albeit the MON disaster did at least come with some ok results and league finishes

[OutByEaster?]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its funny one poster on here, who is totally for him being removed had the gaul, to suggest in his formative , days with us , to have patience with him.....how Bandwagons can affect folk.

Nowt wrong with that, when a manager is fresh to a side and hasn't had the chance to put down their style and influence, there's every need for patience. 

The average time a Premier league manager spends in a job is two years and one month - and that's slightly skewed by the occasional long timer (Pep and Klopp) - Gerrard is almost a year in - he's past the point where he's a new manager trying to put in the groundwork.

It's not an act of bandwagoning to initially ask for patience then once that patience has been granted, evaluate performance and make a judgement - that's good logical thinking.

[Folski]

6 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Option A - they aren't.

Option B - they are and aren't getting through to the players.

Either way they're failing to do their job. 

Exactly.

[viivvaa66]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am struggling, with this, if I am honest....I don't understand, the dislike of any of our managers, we don't even know then for gods sake.......there was a clear dislike of Gerrard in some quarters from day 1.....so make of that what you like.

Lets get this clear....bar for some poor decisions being made by certain players, on sunday, we could have won that......That result, was the gift, that keeps on giving.

There was enough good play, in periods of the game, to have made that result reversed.....I saw poor decisions, that only the player can be responsible for.....but equally, enough good play, with good desisions to have won it.

Not sure what you don’t understand. Fans like to win matches. Anything that prevent winning matches will be disliked by the fans. This is have been the case as far back as I can remember. It doesn’t matter if it is bad managers like Bruce or Gerrard, or bad goal keepers like Nyland and Kalinic, or players like Watkins and McGinn. Rightly or wrongly they will have their critics if we aren’t winning.

With the number of matches we aren’t winning under Gerrard, it would be unnatural if he was liked by the fans. That some fans had the foresight to see where the appointment of Gerrard was going to end up, is not a negative.

That Gerrard set us up with wide attacking players, was a surprise and made us look better. Too bad he have sold/loaned out most of our wide players. There are games where the better team doesn’t win, but that is part of football, and it will even out over a season. 

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, lexicon said:

The 'could've would've should've' doesn't wash when you've got 4 wins in 21 games, TRO.

Besides, it's probably the only 45 minutes this season that you could've called us unlucky, really. 

His record is abysmal and he has to go. 

Yeah, in frustrating times, it don't wash.......Thats why likes of Josh Kroenke are where they are, thats why guys like Musk, defy adversity and stick at it.....They have a level of perseverence, some of us can only dream of.

You could also have said 7 wins in 24....which is equally, not good, but its doesn't feed the narrative does it.....I guess I am splitting hairs here.....The results are not defendable.

When you are on the way back from  dark times, every flash of positivity, is welcome, not just in football, every walk of life......Teams when they are flying, have confidence, and desire, and things go for you, we don't have that, but failing to see shards of light, is defeatism in my book, I watch the games I see little things denying us moving forward, getting those details and little decisions right, makes a difference, it changes pictures.......The process to success is not just black and white, its accumulating positive activity and turning it in to an outcome.....and extinguishing the negativity along the way.

I Remember John Gregory, once saying in his inimitable bouts of humour, I am developing web feet, to stamp out all the fires here....we have no idea what these managers have to deal with, in things conspiring against them......I like to cut them slack, and give it time, to judge properly.

I think the games against Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea, showed signs of resilience....Against Leeds and Forest, it was rancid, but we still got points away from home....and the 10 men argument is a weak one too, because we traditonally struggle against 10 men.

 

[KMitch]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I didn't hear that being rolled out, when the pitchforks and Flame torches was out, when Arsenal was losing.

Sick of seeing the Arteta comparison...  Completely different situations:

Arsenal had a bloated, lopsided, over-the-hill squad of aging former superstars on astronomical wages and needed to rebuild completely in order to compete for Europe again...  Arteta clearly had a strong tactical plan in place and even though they got battered in some games, you could see the statistical progression over time, with huge jumps in xG/xGA performance after every transfer window.  They also spent an astronomical amount of money on new players and took huge losses to get dressing room problems out sooner rather than later.  They're playing some of the best football in the league right now...

Compare that to Villa...  We had an underperforming young squad who needed better coaching and a few key signings to make us into European contenders.  Gerrard spent big on older players, scrapped Smith's tactical philosophy for one which we're still struggling to implement a year later, and we continue to show regression in xG/xGA from when he switched to his narrow Rangers system in January.  We play some of the most boring, negative football I've ever seen.  Even McLeish wasn't this bad, and he once put out 7 defenders and Heskey in central midfield!

 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

but equally, considering you claim to be on the fence, when he first come, you have not being able to find any positives to my knowledge, despite him being hugely influential in signing 2 champions league calibre players( albeit out injuried, is that his fault too)......I even recall the claims from some, he has lifted the profile of the club, by the media talk.....that has been lost on some.

You can go back through my posts, I have said a number of times that the only positive he’s done is some of the top quality players he’s recruited.  I have said repeatedly that I see nothing on the pitch and that’s his main job.  It doesn’t how well he does on recruiting if he can’t get them to perform on the pitch then it makes not difference. He’s been unlucky with Kamara and Carlos but apart from the start he hasn’t got anything out of Coutinho and the same can be said about Digne.  Great that he gets these top players in, no point if he can’t get them to perform.

As for profile of the club, I’m not as convinced by this now.  Yes for some players recruitment wise it’s been great but otherwise not really.

 1) just without rose tinted glasses has Lampard raised Everton’s profile…not really and it’s a very similar comparison to Gerrard with us

2) Gerrard even now is only associated with Liverpool

3) with the poor football and disconnect with fans, the bigger community of football have backed Gerrard or at least separated him from Villa somewhat from his media buddies to the influential international Liverpool fan base.  “Gerrard’s too good for us”

4) I don’t think we’ve really marketed the Gerrard brand as much as thought we would as a club.  Maybe the market wasn’t really there.

It doesn’t feel like he has raised the profile of the club, in fact because of the football it’s been a bit negative because of the love for Gerrard as a player that surely it can’t be his fault somewhat narrative.

Cant argue with some of the recruitment though and I have praised him for that but his media savvy bores the tears out of me and on the pitch has been poor.

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

Now, I can't tell people how to think, but I do find it, questionable, when i get accused of overly defending him, and others find no positives of any description to balance the perspective.....that smacks of bias mate.

Apart from recruitment it’s because there are no other positives.  I can’t create miracles.

31 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its funny one poster on here, who is totally for him being removed had the gaul, to suggest in his formative , days with us , to have patience with him.....how Bandwagons can affect folk.

Or reality of not seeing anything, means he changed his mind which is anybodies right.  If you don’t see it time and time again then you may call it a bandwagon but it might just be based on reality.

 

Ok question for you and I don’t want a “hope” or blind faith answer 

Forget what you hope for the future from Gerrard because of his “winning mentality”.  

Forget what the players aren’t doing.

Forget “we don’t see behind the scenes”.  

What are you seeing now and in the past six months on the pitch that convinces you he can turn this around???

What are you seeing specifically from Gerrard?

I don’t see it! and I’m sick of hearing what he could do “if” or it’s the players.  What is Gerrard doing on the pitch to keep his job that we as a fan can see? I can’t anything

[nick76]

29 minutes ago, Folski said:

The bigger issue is that we are a point above the drop zone with Leicester having enough quality to stay up,  2 newly promoted teams 3 & 4 points ahead of us and having played 6 of the bottom 8 in the 10 games we've played.

Completely agree…I don’t get why he’s still here

[KentVillan]

32 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its funny one poster on here, who is totally for him being removed had the gaul, to suggest in his formative , days with us , to have patience with him.....how Bandwagons can affect folk.

I think we have been patient with him. The negativity has built up over time, with bad decisions he’s made. The Forest game (among many others!) was more of a nail in the coffin than the Chelsea game.

If he was called Carlos Managerio and we’d poached him from a second tier side in Spain, he’d have been sacked by now.

I’m fine with hanging on to him until the WC if that gives us the best shot at finding a replacement, but can’t see him surviving beyond that tbh.

[foreveryoung]

Reading through this thread, I'm finding it really hard to understand, why you @TRO a veteran villa fan, would continue to back a manager, (not forgetting him being a liverpool player, no villa legend), who just cannot get a tune out of this team and is leading us towards relegation with the rubbish of the league. 1 year and nothings changed, why continue, I'm baffled?