Steven Gerrard

[bielesibub]

43 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I did give 100% backing despite my concerns as I said. Only the past 10 months those concerns have not been allayed at all, in fact got worse so now while I give him 100% backing during games still whether at the ground for home games or on tv for away games…outside games I want him gone.  I’m not sure where that has confused you.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is confused. Gerrard in 100%.

[jimmygreaves]

23 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I think he may have a small overdraft facility. Next 4 games are his to prove himself I think

He's good mates with the bank manager too so that'll be another 2 or 3 games on top.

Edited September 5, 2022 by jimmygreaves

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, nick76 said:

We’ve just been poor under most of his tenure is the biggest difference.

 

 

Any I’m out of this thread for today, only popped my head in hoping he was gone.

He has presided over some good wins, Southampton, Leeds away......but I am not coming back at you,....because we have had some horror shows too. I accept that.

consistency still eludes us.....but I am searching for some perspective.

I seem to get the impression from you, the next guy will be a foregone conclusion.....I don't see that as clear as you seem to.

I would rewrite your first line as " poor under some of his tenure"......However, we are ALL looking for improvement, I would agree with you there.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

42 minutes ago, nick76 said:

 

But can you not concede they had a poor game for them.  Just because it was arguably their best side doesn’t mean it wasn’t a disappointing performance by them…you can see the difference can’t you!

Yeah but the irony is, it's mostly Villa fans pursuing a narrative who are describing it as them being " poor ". Even if they weren't at their " best ".

Man City in second gear still brush aside most teams.

I've seen Man City fans and neutrals giving us credit for the performance.

As I mentioned earlier, were people bemoaning the 7 - 2 against Liverpool as they weren't at their " best "?

You can only play against what is in front of you.

Do we get any credit for making them play lesser than their best?

At the start of the game they were having their way with us and playing as they often do, we grew in confidence, grew into the game and once we started applying more pressure is when I'd say they started getting " sloppy ".

So spin it however you want, but we deserve credit.

Edited September 5, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Teale's 'tache]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

He hasn't gone, until he's gone.

I accept, these results, have to improve....and I have seen signs, over the last 3 of a  flicker of light.

The West Ham game could have been so different.....Their goal was fortuitous, despite the poor attempted block....and the unfortunate corner going out in mid air.......

We could be sitting on 6 points 3 draws in the last 3.....playing West Ham, Arsenal and Man City.

Its Bournemouth and to a lesser degree, crystal Palace, which has set the negativity in, and rightly so.....it was piss poor.

but looking back, will do us no good at all....we have to look forward, with belief and that competitve spirit, we have just found.

I saw a performance on Saturday from Mings, I haven't seen for months, that got him in the England side.....Young was the Leader, he was our William Wallace.

As you know, I am not Dougies greatest fan.....he was superb in his close contact and willingness to compete, not to mention that worldie of a pass....Kamara, is showing the class and the mix between defence and creativity, something sid cowans had.

Ollie second half showed the ability, to preoccupy their central defenders, and cause them grief/anxiety.....Pep made a special mention to the "trouble he caused them"......Haaland said it was a real tough game recognition of the change in attitude of our players and the ability of Mings to reduce him to one goal.

We are rightfully, criticising them when its deserved......but that was the knd of Villa approach, that has me hoping for better things.

If folk can't see some of those moments, in that game, (against that calibre of opposition) we have failed to muster in the past.....I don't know what they are looking at.

I certainly saw plenty to be optimistic about in the performance, but it is a performance that has been long overdue and up to this point very much the exception rather than the rule.

The issue Gerrard is going to have is that setting up for a free hit against Manchester City is completely different to setting up against Leicester or Southampton in games that he must win. We are going to have plenty of possession in those games and be expected to attack a whole lot more. There's an entirely different balance to find in the team for those games.

What has he learnt from that performance? Can he admit his faults and set us up a bit wider? Pick the right personnel? And finally put an end to the midfielders covering the full backs, which suits nobody? Does he have it in him to drop McGinn? Can he motivate them to do the same against lesser opposition?

And those are just the short term issues he needs to figure out, longer term there's still plenty of other mess to clear up if he lasts that long.

However, having said all of that, he does seem to very much have the players onside at the moment, and I'm sure there will be a shot of confidence going through the camp after that performance. He himself seemed in a bullish mood after the game, can he take these new found positive vibes and build something from them? Time will tell.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Teale's 'tache
typo in my typo

[NeilS]

24 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said:

The performance against city showed that the players are still with him. They could easily have downed tools if they had wanted him sacked. 
 

The manager deserves praise for the performance, as much as he deserved criticism for the performances before that.

Let’s just hope that he takes the opportunity this week to build on a more pragmatic approach vs city as opposed to opening the team up too much again. 

I must admit that I was expecting this to be Gerrards final match in charge when I drove up on Saturday, but having seen the performance and fight from the players and the fans singing Steven Gerrards Claret and Blue Army at one point, I think he has earned a reprieve for another match at least. Like you say, the players were still playing for him against Man City, otherwise it could have got messy after they took the lead early in the second half. The next two matches against Leicester and Southampton will be the true test though and will need to bring in better performances and results than we have previously seen this season. 4 Points is what I would like as a minimum return, ideally 6 points though to get us up the table and breathing a bit easier.

[TRO]

56 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Fairly standard for everybody I know.  

It’s everything I’ve ever known and from everything I’ve ever learnt even business.  

You have disagreements but when you are in battle you speak with one voice.  When not in battle you continue your discussions and arguments.

 In business when you are sitting with the other directors, you discuss, argue, accommodate and compromise and as soon as you leave that room or meeting you all sing the same tune to the masses.  

Re Villa we are discuss and argue here but to any non-Villa fan I defend Villa to the hills.  Re games…you discuss and argue in between games on Villa forums but at the game you are 100% behind the team and you leave your issues at the door.  

It’s the way I’ve been brought up, people I know are the same and to be honest I’ve travelled the world and not seen much different even when I lived in Australia.  It’s tribal mentality.

I get what you are alluding to.....but I don't see that as the same as we are talking about here......your analogy, is representing the company, when you leave the boardroom, and I get that, here you are representing yourself in both guises...in and out of the stadium.....but hey ho

Does that still apply to SG too.

Edited September 5, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I certainly saw plenty to be optimistic about in the performance, but it is a performance that has been long overdue and up to this point very much the exception rather than the rule.

The issue Gerrard is going to have is that setting up for a free hit against Manchester City is completely different to setting up against Leicester or Southampton in games that he must win. We are going to have plenty of possession in those games and be expected to attack a whole lot more. There's an entirely different balance to find in the team for those games.

What has he learnt from that performance? Can he admit his faults and set us up a bit wider? Pick the right personnel? And finally put an end to the midfielders covering the full backs, which suits nobody? Does he have it in him to drop McGinn? Can he motivate them to do the same against lesser opposition?

And those are just the short term issues he needs to figure out, longer term there's still plenty of other mess to clear up if he lasts that long.

However, having said all of that, he does seem to very much have the players onside at the moment, and I'm sure there will be a shot of confidence going through the camp after that performance. He himself seemed in a bullish mood after the game, can he take these new found positive vibes and build something from them? Time will tell.

 

I agree with that.

[Marka Ragnos]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Fairly standard for everybody I know.  

It’s everything I’ve ever known and from everything I’ve ever learnt even business.  

You have disagreements but when you are in battle you speak with one voice.  When not in battle you continue your discussions and arguments.

 In business when you are sitting with the other directors, you discuss, argue, accommodate and compromise and as soon as you leave that room or meeting you all sing the same tune to the masses.  

Re Villa we are discuss and argue here but to any non-Villa fan I defend Villa to the hills.  Re games…you discuss and argue in between games on Villa forums but at the game you are 100% behind the team and you leave your issues at the door.  

It’s the way I’ve been brought up, people I know are the same and to be honest I’ve travelled the world and not seen much different even when I lived in Australia.  It’s tribal mentality.

So true. As Anglo-American, I hate it when non-Britons criticise Britons. But I’m perfectly allowed—and do. Same with my family. 

[Marka Ragnos]

I find myself agreeing profoundly with everyone and nobody here.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Fairly standard for everybody I know.  

It’s everything I’ve ever known and from everything I’ve ever learnt even business.  

You have disagreements but when you are in battle you speak with one voice.  When not in battle you continue your discussions and arguments.

 In business when you are sitting with the other directors, you discuss, argue, accommodate and compromise and as soon as you leave that room or meeting you all sing the same tune to the masses.  

Re Villa we are discuss and argue here but to any non-Villa fan I defend Villa to the hills.  Re games…you discuss and argue in between games on Villa forums but at the game you are 100% behind the team and you leave your issues at the door.  

It’s the way I’ve been brought up, people I know are the same and to be honest I’ve travelled the world and not seen much different even when I lived in Australia.  It’s tribal mentality.

We don’t agree with everything but this is spot on. Many want Gerrard gone (probably most) but on match day we should be 100% supporting the team at the ground. The team includes the manager.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

19 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I find myself agreeing profoundly with everyone and nobody here.

That's good.

I like people who can accept different opinions for their merits, as well as alter opinions and stances based on information, as well as taking account of mitigating factors and circumstances etc.

Being steadfast to one position no matter what is what creates the most head bopping.

I often agree with points from all angles.

Naturally,  we have a plethora of personalities here and we'll never all agree on anything.

Some people naturally lean positive, some negative, some balanced, some analytical, some emotional etc.

Edited September 5, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[AvonVillain]

1 hour ago, Made In Aston said:

How much interest is he paying on the overdraft? I think it's one of those where you try and clear it but, as the charges are so high, you can never pay it back. 

The interest comes with being booed out of the stadium home and away, and the continued desecration of his reputation.

[romavillan]

Well, he's earned a stay of execution with the organised hard earned defensive display against a very good team. It think his problem now though is that if he goes back to the normal system and personnel and the team plays as badly as it mostly has done for 30ish games then he's right back in the shit.

So, best case, he changes things for the better and it clicks and we go on a run and it's only up from here. I'm not sure I can muster up any kind of belief that will happen though, not after so many terrible performances.

[WallisFrizz]

5 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Well, he's earned a stay of execution with the organised hard earned defensive display against a very good team. It think his problem now though is that if he goes back to the normal system and personnel and the team plays as badly as it mostly has done for 30ish games then he's right back in the shit.

So, best case, he changes things for the better and it clicks and we go on a run and it's only up from here. I'm not sure I can muster up any kind of belief that will happen though, not after so many terrible performances.

It’s pretty much where I am with it too. I’d be genuinely delighted if he proved the doubters wrong but we’re a pretty experienced fan base when it comes to false hope and disappointment. 

[The Fun Factory]

Ultimately we are still having to cope with an inexperienced manager learning on the job, which we have done without really.

[nick76]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Context to the original post please Nick, I thought tabloid style twisting of comments was below u.  The post said we 'need to start now' and I pointed out that we appear to have started on Sat and we need to continue and build on it. 

No twisting, you are just proving the point.  I’m not saying your wrong in having that view but the other poster said nobody has said it and you have just said again that we appear to have started and we need to continue therefore saying the turning point was potentially the Man City if SG follows it up.  If we beat the next couple of teams then rightly you will say Man City was the turning point, if we lose then it won’t.  This goes to your point earlier that people are seeing things black or white and no in between.  There is nothing wrong with it, some think this could be a turning point, some don’t.  There was no twisting, you were just the comment above the other poster who said nobody said that City game could be a turning point but whether you like it or not, you did like others.  Your caveat was that SG has to follow it up, you still pointed that City was a start of it.

[viivvaa66]

56 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said:

I've seen Stevie set up tactically very well vs Man City on 3 occasions so far, and we've drawn 1 and have 2 narrow losses (3-2 & 2-1). I think he has a good idea as to how to set up vs teams like City where we will be out of possession a lot. On the other hand, I have yet to see Stevie have a set tactical plan vs teams around us that is visible and helps us go on to dominate and get a win. This is where we need to see the improvement, as we need to be winning vs teams that we should be getting 3 points from.

Under Gerrard we have been better against top teams vs middle/bottom of the league. The reason is that against top teams our backs can’t bomb forward, but are force to stay back and defend, because we are under a constant pressure.

Against weaker teams our defence get to exposed because our backs get caught on the counter when they both try be in attack. 
 

Also most of this seasons we have played McGinn and Ramsey, they also bomb forwards that leave our midfield exposed. We will see against Leicester if have learned that it doesn’t work. 
 

With more luck we could also have gotten a point against Arsenal.

 

Not sure why parking the bus and hope to be lucky can be called tactical master class  

 

[El Segundo]

8 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is not blinkered nor ignoring the fact that he has been manager for 32 games and what the results have been like. There are two discussion points at the moment 1) Suggestion we will be relegated and 2) Is SG good enough

1) I believe there is no chance we will be relegated and as I have said in the last few pages, it is because we are only 6 games into this season. We can only be relegated on points for a given season, hence it is futile to include last season's games. With 32 games to play we have lots of time to improve. Yes, the current run rate is not good enough and when u include last season's run rate (valid to include now), it doesn't look like we are improving. Even at that, we are still on about a point per game which would normally be enough to avoid relegation. So our current and previous season's run rate has us at the borderline and not being cut adrift. Just about everyone agrees that the squad is better than its performance and that SG is the problem. On that basis and considering we are currently on a point per game, I see no risk of relegation as Purslow can sack SG and bring in a new manager.

2) I don't know whether SG is good enough or not but I do know he is a novice manager and has only managed 32 games in the PL. I don't want the club to waste the last 10 months investment in him and replace him without giving him a chance this season. We could live to regret that. I want to see SG staying with us for the next 5 or 6 weeks to see if he can demonstrate improvement. If he can't then he should be fired.

Last season's games and the whole of Gerrard's reign are a much stronger indicator of whether we are in danger of relegation than the 6 games this season taken in isolation.  38 points might well be enough to stay up, but the points per game trend has been downwards, so we won't even achieve a point per game moving forward if that continues.  Who's to say a new manager could turn it around?  You said yourself there is a risk a new guy  won't' work out. That risk is the same whether we get a new manager now or in 6 weeks time, but at least if we recruit now and it doesn't work out we would still have more time to change things again.

I also agree the squad is better than the performances but that is irrelevant - it's the actual results that count. 

You don't want the club to waste 10 months investment in the Manager.  So far there is little or no return on that investment - it's already been wasted.  For me there is a much greater risk we will lose our PL status costing us tens if not hundreds of millions in future revenue.  We could live to regret sacking him.  We could live to regret keeping him.  Which one involves the greater risk?

I just don't see why, after 32 games and 9 months, you think Gerrard might suddenly turn into Arteta or Potter over the next 5 or 6 weeks when there has been absolutely no indication that he is capable of that.  We will have simply wasted another 5-6 weeks and have a much harder job of protecting our status and revenue streams. 

[paul514]

12 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Yes, he could do it elsewhere. However, the club has made a conscious decision for him to do it at AVFC. Regardless of whether you believe this is the correct or incorrect decision, it is the decision the club has made. On that basis, it would be very shortsighted of the club to sack SG after a relatively short period as manager and only 6 games into the season. The challenging part of employing a novice manager is the initial period, we are nearly through this period so it makes sense to give SG time, particularly so as we are not under threat of relegation

Ok I think we all understand the club employed SG....

It isn't a short period of employment it is now 30 odd games and he has won 3 in the last 16 is it now? The football is awful, there seems to be no plan and there has been no progress.