Steven Gerrard

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Some of the critism is justified, some isn't.

We have spent nothing this summer in relative terms.....when we all know we need about 3/4 quality players......and after the initial signings, we have sat on our hands.

I was led to believe, it was going to be a bullish transfer window, and it has turned out false.

I agree with the window but then you can't forget the backing he had in January. 

However this is pointless because whilst the squad might not be European quality, its not one of the worst in the league and that's how we look right now. So the lack of activity is not an excuse. 

Especially when the manager you rate so highly has constantly said there is a no excuse culture at the club. 

[PerryBarrPet]

2 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

How can he be though? He didn't play this system at Blackpool and wasn't there during pre-season.

Many of our issues predate him by 6 months, he may not be having the impact we want but the issues aren't his fault.

My belief (unfounded conspiracy) is that his absence over Australia ruined the squads belief in Gerrard - there was a gulf where Beale existed running these 'smart' training sessions that likes of Emi raved about last year. Gerrard was taking over as Critchley was absent and the players realised he isn't up to it, had a couple of run-ins (not big argumentative blowouts like the media would be interested in, but just clash of personalities) with likes of Tyrone and we have the situation we have now.

Convenient theory but we must ask what has he done to resolve the issues existing before he arrived. Are we saying Gerrard has overridden him and his ideas? Are we saying that the issues have a systemic component and therefore Gerrard cannot be wholly and personally responsible? There is far more to the situation we are in so I am against simplistic solutions - as I wrote earlier we cannot afford any more mistakes.

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, villa89 said:

At least he wont be the first manager sacked now jumper has been canned..

He was wearing his cardi inside out on MOTD this week. You could see the label.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Either NSWE are losing interest just like Lerner did after spending loads of money on shit managers that they appointed or they are planning to sack him so don't want him to spunk any more money up the wall.

We are probably the only Premier League club that can fill a bench with senior pros. Even the Sky 6 except Chelsea have really weak benches at times

We have too many players for a team that will play just 40 odd games. We had 4 fit senior players in the stands Sunday

Its unsustainable and coaching team should be working on improving them

[TRO]

2 hours ago, ChesterDad said:

With all due respect TRO - this is a tad convoluted if you don’t mind me saying so.

Its painfully there for all to see - Gerrard can’t get a tune out of a group of pretty talented individuals - I’m not suggesting we are world beaters by any stretch of the imaginations - but we are a darn sight better than the current fayre.

Its got to be down to Gerrard/ Tactics/ Leadership/ Man management and so forth.

We are sleepwalking a road that is taking us nowhere - in my humble opinion it’s time to draw a line with him and move towards. 

I say it again....If you are right, they will sack him.

but many of this talented squad, got the previous manager, the sack.

I am not saying some criticisms are valid, they are....but some are not, and I think we are basing it all on the match day, which to a degree is understandable, but I think there is more to it, than we think.....I could be wrong of course.

If we are sleepwalking a road that takes us nowhere, He will go.........If he has issues, he can't solve, easily, and the club are aware, he will be given time.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating......If the folk who want him gone are right........The club will sack him.

Its no more simpe than that.

[StefanAVFC]

As for this 'not being backed' complete horseshit, who do you think Gerrard thinks we need?

He's sold our wingers, or flat out doesn't play them so that's off the table. Despite that he WAS backed with Sarr, but HE backed out.

Strikers? Watkins plays/recently played for England. Ings is/was one of the best out and out strikers in recent PL history. Archer is one of the most promising young strikers in England atm and he doesn't play, even in the cup.

Right back - he loves Cash.

Left back - he bought Digne. Been backed with an international quality backup.

Centre back - he was backed with Carlos, and bought in Chambers. Bombed out Mings for some bizarre reason. Loves Konsa.

Goalkeeper - One of the best GK's in the league.

CM - HE CHOSE to make McGinn our captain and play him every game. HE CHOSE to bomb out Sanson who was one of Marseille's best players (when they were a club playing at a higher level than we were). HE CHOOSES to not play Luiz and plays Ramsey. He also got Kamara who looks incredible.

Attacking midfield - He bought in Coutinho, also has Buendia who is arguably our best player.

How wasn't he backed? Who else should we have signed based on Gerrard's OWN decisions on the pitch? Centre mid? He plays McGinn every time. He doesn't play Sanson.

Just a complete load of bollocks cop out.

Edited August 30, 2022 by StefanAVFC

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I say it again....If you are right, they will sack him.

but many of this talented squad, got the previous manager, the sack.

I am not saying some criticisms are valid, they are....but some are not, and I think we are basing it all on the match day, which to a degree is understandable, but I think there is more to it, than we think.....I could be wrong of course.

If we are sleepwalking a road that takes us nowhere, He will go.........If he has issues, he can't solve, easily, and the club are aware, he will be given time.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating......If the folk who want him gone are right........The club will sack him.

Its no more simpe than that.

But can you not see how it looks when you say this, yet constantly criticised the last guy. 

Who was here for 3 years. 

[MaVilla]

[SuffolkVillan]

49 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

He’ll be gone by Thursday. We’ll be two or three nil down by HT tomorrow night and the away fans will turn. That will then be that. 

He’s currently 3/1 in the sack race. Free money if you ask me

I had him @ 14/1 until bloody Bournmouth sacked Parker 

[TRO]

6 hours ago, KentVillan said:

There are plenty of top players who've won trophies who just aren't very tactically / positionally aware. They get to the top because of their natural gifts - in Gerrard's case, he had a *phenomenal* shot, decent skills on the ball, was a strong tackler, and was a great athlete who covered every blade of grass.

He had most of his success playing alongside more positionally aware players like Xabi Alonso, Didi Hamann, and later Jordan Henderson. Benitez often shoved him out on to the right wing or played him a free attacking midfield role because he couldn't be trusted to hold the shape in the middle (which is also partly why the Gerrard/Lampard partnership underachieved for England).

My first thought when he went into management is that he would be useless. Too much in the Roy Keane / Graeme Souness mould. A winner, but not a thinker.

Then he did well with Rangers, came across well as a pundit, and I started to wonder if maybe there was a bit more about him. Then he got sold to us as part of this duo with Beale, who was meant to be the coaching brain behind his success in Scotland, and Gerrard would be there as the leader. That kind of made sense, and I was optimistic.

Now fast forward to where we are, and it's just Gerrard on his own, and he's lost the dressing room... and I don't really buy it.

You always say football is a simple game, but it's 22 men moving around a pitch for 90 mins trying to find space, press, be compact in defence, close off runs, play or beat offside traps, see long passes, throughballs, one-twos, overlaps, manage their energy levels, attack and defend set pieces, mark key players, attack weaknesses, etc.

It's all basic stuff by itself, but when you bring it all together - and need to communicate it and drill it to a squad of players who speak different languages and have varying abilities - it gets complicated, especially at the top level. Then throw in fitness and injury issues throughout a busy season, players fading during games, etc. and there's a lot for a manager to think about.

The manager's job is to see all of that, but explain it in a simple way to his players so that they can execute it.

And of course every manager has his own strengths. Some are very tactical (Guardiola, Bielsa) and some are more man managers (Ancelotti, Ferguson). The great ones are usually strong at both sides. The problem is that Gerrard doesn't seem to be coping well with either of these responsibilities.

All feasible and reasonably articulated stuff.....I don't disagree with what you are saying.....A winner, not a thinker, is a good point, I accept.

but we all knew, he was hiring a relatively, inexperienced manager, so why did we expect so much, so soon?

Michael Beale features much in Gerrards appraising, but he still presided over, 12 defeats last season.

I still think there is more to this, than meets the eye......Dean had much the same issues.....I am dubious.

If what you and many others say is right......They will sack him.

We then have to find someone who can make it work.

[HalfTimePost]

12 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

Convenient theory but we must ask what has he done to resolve the issues existing before he arrived. Are we saying Gerrard has overridden him and his ideas? Are we saying that the issues have a systemic component and therefore Gerrard cannot be wholly and personally responsible? There is far more to the situation we are in so I am against simplistic solutions - as I wrote earlier we cannot afford any more mistakes.

Yeah he's not had the impact.

Has Gerrard overridden him? - probably. He's his boss, Gerrards role should be in charge of the strategies, plan etc. 

If there are systemic issues, it's Langes job as he should be in charge of how the systems and plans of the club run throughout all age groups. But that doesn't sound like the problem. The first team is now playing differently to the Academy, that's on Gerrard.

[Dale]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

but many of this talented squad, got the previous manager, the sack.

I think we've trod this ground many times. But the start of season was far more difficult last year. We started a match with a CM partnership of Ashley Young and Carney Chukwuemeka. No one else available. Buendia and Bailey had fitness issues, Watkins had the first prolonged injury of his career. Some players out of form, a pre season with cancelled games and new signings arriving late and lacking fitness. Dean's departure I think most agree was sadly the right thing. Since then his successor has been playing largely on easy mode and has made a terrible mess of it. Dean's mistake in my view was pivoting to three at the back to accommodate Ings, but nevertheless, the circumstances at the start of the season were not good. We did win at Old Trafford though! 

There are no excuses, that's the culture apparently, Gerrard shouldn't be given a free pass. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Dale

[AshVilla]

His last game in charge will be Leicester imo, they are desperate for a win so as usual we will roll over give them an easy 3 points and that will be that

Edited August 30, 2022 by AshVilla

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But can you not see how it looks when you say this, yet constantly criticised the last guy. 

Who was here for 3 years. 

I didn't constantly criticise the last guy, I was very supportive od Dean

I just wasn't convinced, he would lead us to the top half.....there is a subtle difference.

I am now thinking in hindsight, many of these players, got him the sack too......unless of course you think that was ALL down to him too.

I don't know the answers.....I am just throwing up alternative thoughts, to keep sacking managers.

[Reivax_Villa]

2 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

His last game in charge will be Leicester imo, they are desperate for a win so as usual we will roll over give them an easy 3 points and that will be that

I said this,

After the two tough games it will either be Leicester or Southampton.

It wouldn't be fair for our potential manager to be dealing with the two best teams in the league currently.

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, Dale said:

We started a match with a CM partnership of Ashley Young and Carney Chukwuemeka

And we still got a point against a decent Brentford.

We started Bournemouth with a CM of McGinn (Gerrard's own choice for captain), Kamara (French international) and Ramsey (pipped for England place last season) and we deserved to lose. Sanson wasn't even on the bench and Luiz came on later. All 5 of those players would walk into Bournemouth's midfield.

How can this be remotely about the players?

[rubberman]

31 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

What worries me as much as the performances on the pitch is the poison he seems to be spreading amongst the squad.

Buendia. Bailey, Mings, Sanson

This is where I am. We apparently had such a solid and happy squad up till recently (albeit not performing to potential) and throwing that away may mean losing talented footballers we need. We need a manager that can improve players and make our team more than the sum of it's parts. Gerrard is managing the complete opposite.

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I just wasn't convinced, he would lead us to the top half.....

 

And what on earth could you be seeing from Gerrard that convinces you he is capable of the same?

Beating teams like Bournemouth are pre-requisites for barely staying up, not finishing in the top half.

[one_ian_taylor]

1 minute ago, rubberman said:

This is where I am. We apparently had such a solid and happy squad up till recently (albeit not performing to potential) and throwing that away may mean losing talented footballers we need. We need a manager that can improve players and make our team more than the sum of it's parts. Gerrard is managing the complete opposite.

And this seems to be a perennial problem - signing decent players and somehow making a team that is less than the sum of its parts. 

[a m ole]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

And what on earth could you be seeing from Gerrard that convinces you he is capable of the same?

Beating teams like Bournemouth are pre-requisites for barely staying up, not finishing in the top half.

We’ll get a new manager, look much better, get results and it will be ‘The players clearly couldn’t handle being told what’s what - weak minded lads who will only perform for a manager who lets them do what they want’

its honestly not worth it