CVByrne Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: I feel we’re already at the same point in terms of hopelessness as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. I come to this thread mostly to laugh. We're on a losing streak of 1 and we're already at the same point as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. This thread is giving endless laughs at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted August 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2022 We need the back to basics approach that Gerrard brought in after he first joined. Clearly a lot of muddled thinking at the club with various things tried and failed and now no clear plan. Restrain the full backs, keep the midfield tight and packed, and defend as a unit. That would at least arrest the slide even if it is not how we want to play long term. Gerrard needs the get the basics right before he tries anything more ambitious than that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I come to this thread mostly to laugh. We're on a losing streak of 1 and we're already at the same point as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. This thread is giving endless laughs at the moment. It's good to laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Rodders said: Can anyone think of one player who has benefited from his tenure? One player who has improved from their standard before he came? At one point you could have said Ramsey, but he now seems to be regressing at an alarming rate, so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I come to this thread mostly to laugh. We're on a losing streak of 1 and we're already at the same point as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. This thread is giving endless laughs at the moment. There is some real comedy here. Win or lose, the same faces bring laughs every week. Hope Gerrard was inspired by Ten Hag. Dropped his captain and 'star man', shock, huge upswing in performance. You can do it Stevie. Edited August 23, 2022 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I come to this thread mostly to laugh. We're on a losing streak of 1 and we're already at the same point as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. This thread is giving endless laughs at the moment. Its not about a 1 game losing streak is it Read what I wrote. Hopeful of Gerrard turning it around are you with this side and the tactics employed and the unbalanced nature of that midfield we persist with? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 12 hours ago, Jas10 said: It’s ok mate. I apologise for any of my faults too. It’s an emotional time for us fans and there are going to be differences of opinion - which should be respected or accepted. There’s no need for any of us to have a go at each other or talk down to each other if we don’t agree on things. I think it’s pretty stupid to mock or clash with people who hold a different view, to each their own. Anyway… I was worked up and needed a release. A lot calmer now… It’s ok. Maybe it’s best not to engage or engage in conflict with someone when they are having a good, old fashioned rant. I’ve said this before but I am willing to repeat it. I don’t come here to engage in conflict or argue with posters. That’s a complete waste of time/life. I am just commenting on what is going on with the club I support and giving my thoughts, opinions and feelings. So, again, I apologise if I offended you in anyway but at the same time I have to request that you take time and give a bit more thought before responding to posts/posters. I don’t like clashing, I don’t enjoy it at all tbh. And the last thing I want to do is upset another person, not intentionally anyway. We are not going to change each other’s minds so it’s best just to agree to disagree. I haven’t asked or demanded that you change your opinion. You’re entitled to it (as am I or anyone else here) and if you want to defend the manager then fine, that’s your decision. But if someone else doesn’t or wants to criticise him, allow them to without engaging in conflict over it… I don’t like it when people act superior, it’s an ugly look. It’s not about who is right or wrong. There needs to be an understanding that people are going to be affected when the team is doing poorly or we have made wrong decisions. Like I said, if I can’t vent (while explaining my opinion and making certain points - I don’t just swear and shout but sometimes I bit of that is justified when the poster has a point and is worked up) on here, then where? Thanks Jas.....I don't intend to act superior, but I am guilty of being passionate about my points.....until I am proven wrong...but equally, I don't want conflict, we all support the same outcome, its just finding it right now. I can only defend SG so much, but he is our manager, until he's not......so I will present alternative views that are relevant to him. It seems like the club are backing, him, so maybe they know something we don't. Its hard to back managers, when we are losing so many games.....but I find it difficult to accept a barage of vitriol towards any on our managers when they are currently in the job. I feel, we can dissect why we are playing so bad, and apportion blame as we see it......but when some engage in downright insulting behaviour, I feel I want to defend against it.....unfortunately that can get interpreted by some, as unconditionally defending the manager, for the football he presides over.....some folk can't seperate the 2, as I experienced with SB. Anyway......We have to turn this around, and solutions are being discussed in the fan base, non better than "The Holy trinity Show"...where Pete sums it up well, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Anyway......We have to turn this around, and solutions are being discussed in the fan base, non better than "The Holy trinity Show"...where Pete sums it up well, for me. Non-better? I don’t think he’s great generally but more so now 6 minutes ago, TRO said: It seems like the club are backing, him, so maybe they know something we don't. Or maybe they don’t, sometimes people are blinded by the relationships they build on a daily basis. Sometimes being so close can give you great insight but sometimes it blinds you as well especially when you have invested so much into him. 8 minutes ago, TRO said: I feel, we can dissect why we are playing so bad, and apportion blame as we see it......but when some engage in downright insulting behaviour, I feel I want to defend against it.....unfortunately that can get interpreted by some, as unconditionally defending the manager, for the football he presides over.....some folk can't seperate the 2, as I experienced with SB. But just as some go so negative and can’t separate, some can’t the other way that want to deflect blame as much to others and take more than deserved pressure and blame off Gerrard than he owns. 10 minutes ago, TRO said: I can only defend SG so much, but he is our manager, until he's not......so I will present alternative views that are relevant to him. But they aren’t reality. They are just muddying the waters and clouding reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Win today, cracks papered over a little until West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: I come to this thread mostly to laugh. We're on a losing streak of 1 and we're already at the same point as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. This thread is giving endless laughs at the moment. Streaks are irrelevant. Performance over 30 games, almost a full season, is very relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, AVFCGB said: My take is that he’s lost the dressing room and they are playing him out. Players are not having Gerrard and Critchley which is always going to end badly. Now if it is a battle of wills players generally win. This won’t last 10 games as the owners will have little choice but to get rid!!! Thats one view and you could be right. but I have seen some of our flaws way before , he arrived.....we was accused of a soft underbelly, way before he arrived and yes I thought he would change it.....The midfield has not been right for some time and one new addition as promising as he is, was not enough, he needs a dominant partner. Maybe, just maybe, SG is trying to change it, to address those things, and some are resisiting it......Ron Saunders had his moaners, because he drove them hard, very hard, but when he got results the moans subsided. You only have to watch us play, compared with other teams in this league, we labour, we don't seem to run as much as others, we are slow to the ball, we are lethargic.....maybe he's trying to change that and its not going down well It wasn't so long ago, the previous manager was changing the training start time to 12 noon, so the late comers, who had been on their play stations, until 2.00pm.....could get to work on time......I ask you? what else don't we know about. If the owners think SG is trying to instil discipline and fitness.....he will be backed, against any rebel players. Unfortunately right now, none of it is finding its way on to the pitch......Just an alternative suspected view. We all need wins from somewhere to quell the doubt...because losing is not an option. Edited August 23, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, TRO said: You only have to watch us play, compared with other teams in this league, we labour, we don't seem to run as much as others, we are slow to the ball, we are lethargic.....maybe he's trying to change that and its not going down well yes, but this seems to have got worse over the past 15 games rather then better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 For me, The talent is there......but the application is in question.....I do question the physicality of the side and recruitment, has to be challenged on that too....The midfield is puny. I don't see a committed, competing team, when I watch us, I see a puny half hearted, bunch, who avoid contact where they possibly can....They are a team who cry out " Bully us" we won't resist. I rarely see full bloodied tackles with conviction, I see a late run up to semi close down, to avoid any physical hurt. The odd exception sure, but as a team they are lilly livered and that has been the case for some time, now. I was expecting to see a change, with a man, who's reputation as a player, was in stark contrast, bullish,fierce and driven, all the things we are not......it seems he is having difficulty, bringing it in to his management, but he still has time, to fix it. I see inconsistent offering of running off the ball and I see huge gaps between our players, to hamper any team work.....most work on their own, other teams have small groups or raiding parties, to challenge. This team is Insipid to watch....and the performances like this are too frequent. SG needs to come up with solutions pretty darn quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, ender4 said: yes, but this seems to have got worse over the past 15 games rather then better. I have to agree. I think the Spurs game last season at Home.....Harboured most of our issues, all in one game Great first half....and then we simply allowed talented players so much space and freedom to exploit us....and they put us to the sword. How can players change so quickly during a game, if its not attitude to the basics? The gameplan worked in the first half, why not the second half? If the hard yards are not employed, no gameplan or tactics will bail you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, TRO said: Thanks Jas.....I don't intend to act superior, but I am guilty of being passionate about my points.....until I am proven wrong...but equally, I don't want conflict, we all support the same outcome, its just finding it right now. I can only defend SG so much, but he is our manager, until he's not......so I will present alternative views that are relevant to him. It seems like the club are backing, him, so maybe they know something we don't. Its hard to back managers, when we are losing so many games.....but I find it difficult to accept a barage of vitriol towards any on our managers when they are currently in the job. I feel, we can dissect why we are playing so bad, and apportion blame as we see it......but when some engage in downright insulting behaviour, I feel I want to defend against it.....unfortunately that can get interpreted by some, as unconditionally defending the manager, for the football he presides over.....some folk can't seperate the 2, as I experienced with SB. Anyway......We have to turn this around, and solutions are being discussed in the fan base, non better than "The Holy trinity Show"...where Pete sums it up well, for me. No probs, you do you TRO and I understand your feelings. Some of the points I made were just in general btw, not directed just at you. I think we can all (including me) conduct ourselves better here and try not to be hypocritical. Passion and emotion just takes over sometimes, get the better of us, it’s always good to take a moment to cool down. I’m going to try to be calmer but it’s difficult not to get annoyed when things are going so poorly and it’s even more difficult not to get angry and direct ire toward the manager who is, after all, the one responsible… Anyway, by whatever means, here’s to better fortune asap. I’m just desperate for us to succeed and stop throwing opportunities away, I hate the notion of wasting another season. Worried we are going to be left too far behind and surpassed by others - that shouldn’t be allowed to happen imo with a club of our size, stature and resources. I can’t defend this manager… but you go ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Rodders said: Can anyone think of one player who has benefited from his tenure? One player who has improved from their standard before he came? Cash. Watkins was better under Gerrard after a poor start to last season. And partnership with Ings actually seems to work under Gerrard where didn't look good under Smith (we've taken 20 points from 12 games when starting both under Gerrard). Nakamba looked better in those first Gerrard games than ever did under Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 40 minutes ago, nick76 said: Non-better? I don’t think he’s great generally but more so now Or maybe they don’t, sometimes people are blinded by the relationships they build on a daily basis. Sometimes being so close can give you great insight but sometimes it blinds you as well especially when you have invested so much into him. But just as some go so negative and can’t separate, some can’t the other way that want to deflect blame as much to others and take more than deserved pressure and blame off Gerrard than he owns. But they aren’t reality. They are just muddying the waters and clouding reality. Good points Nick, Alternative to mine, but just as relevant and possible. The thing is Nick he could go on a run, picking up points, that are commensurate with our expectations, and that changes opinions. The only reality right now is, we are playing a patently low grade football and losing too many games, those that translate that to being ALL the manager, is up to them......The manager has to be responsible for that, but maybe he is working on it, and brighter days are round the corner...who knows......In any scenario, its the players, that deliver poor football, its the managers job to change it, so for me the players too, have to take their fair share of it....particularly, when an other manager has presided over similar traits. I see some things with the players, I find hard to blame the manager for, even the last manager said on occasions, " I didn't ask them to do that" and I believed him and still do. Managers can only do so much, they can "take the horse to water, but they can't make it drink" thats the best way, I can describe it.....This team is devoid of leaders and game changers, who can roll their sleeves up, for the battle. just as one example....Konsa had 2 big moments to challenge Zaha, and he failed to show any courage, in doing so.....He could have blocked his shot, and he could have clatterd Zaha for the reverse pass to tyriek Mitchell......Konsa was puny. We are all looking for answers and when results and performances go against us like this, The Manager inevitably cops the lot.....He has already said, "its on me"....so he is accepting the rsponsibilty. We have the best owners we have ever had, so if they are continuing to back him, I can only assume they see things behind the scenes ( we can't) and they are expecting fortunes to change....because there is no doubt in my mind, consistently losing, is not an option, they will tolerate, so he has limited time, to sort it out.....and hopefully, in the way of recruitment, they will help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jas10 said: No probs, you do you TRO and I understand your feelings. Some of the points I made were just in general btw, not directed just at you. I think we can all (including me) conduct ourselves better here and try not to be hypocritical. Passion and emotion just takes over sometimes, get the better of us, it’s always good to take a moment to cool down. I’m going to try to be calmer but it’s difficult not to get annoyed when things are going so poorly and it’s even more difficult not to get angry and direct ire toward the manager who is, after all, the one responsible… Anyway, by whatever means, here’s to better fortune asap. I’m just desperate for us to succeed and stop throwing opportunities away, I hate the notion of wasting another season. Worried we are going to be left too far behind and surpassed by others - that shouldn’t be allowed to happen imo with a club of our size, stature and resources. I can’t defend this manager… but you go ahead. Last season Jas....Newcastle couldn't buy a win, Eddie Howe, didn't win a game in 2 months, until the Jan window, where his purchases, was not marquee, but they was pragmatic and made a real difference to their defensive work, this gave the team confidence and they finished above us, after being relegation candidates.....In short "They became hard to beat".....as opposed to " easy to play against".......The 2 centre back changes and trippier made a huge difference to that. It can be turned around, but we need to find the right players to help us......that doesn't mean Marquee signings, but it does mean, players who can help us with our glaring faults...and not just squad fillers. This can be turned around, but not with some of these players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: I come to this thread mostly to laugh. We're on a losing streak of 1 and we're already at the same point as we were last year with Smiths 5 game losing streak. This thread is giving endless laughs at the moment. What about the 25 game + playing rubbish streak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 33 minutes ago, TRO said: For me, The talent is there......but the application is in question.....I do question the physicality of the side and recruitment, has to be challenged on that too....The midfield is puny. I don't see a committed, competing team, when I watch us, I see a puny half hearted, bunch, who avoid contact where they possibly can....They are a team who cry out " Bully us" we won't resist. I rarely see full bloodied tackles with conviction, I see a late run up to semi close down, to avoid any physical hurt. The odd exception sure, but as a team they are lilly livered and that has been the case for some time, now. I was expecting to see a change, with a man, who's reputation as a player, was in stark contrast, bullish,fierce and driven, all the things we are not......it seems he is having difficulty, bringing it in to his management, but he still has time, to fix it. I see inconsistent offering of running off the ball and I see huge gaps between our players, to hamper any team work.....most work on their own, other teams have small groups or raiding parties, to challenge. This team is Insipid to watch....and the performances like this are too frequent. SG needs to come up with solutions pretty darn quick. But this is the problem TRO, who is responsible for that? I’m not saying that you are definitely doing this but the impression is that you are deflecting blame away from the manager. These non descript “tactics”, lack of any form of effective playing style, players performing way below their standard - this is all the fault of the manager. Why should we give him even more time when after 9 months he has failed to address the issues and deficiencies we have? Everything is getting worse, we are in decline, it’s his fault! His record, lack of wins and positive performances is truly abysmal! What’s the point in bringing up 2 or 3 decent performances/results when, on the whole, it’s been terrible?! Even though I agree with you that we really need a dominant player in midfield, I don’t believe that just signing players is the solution, not under this guy. You can have the best players at your disposal but if the set up and tactics are wrong or off (such as vacating and bypassing the midfield, leaving your full backs so high and forcing other players to cover) then you’re not going to succeed. He doesn’t learn from his mistakes… he’s visibly not trying to change anything! His ego and stubbornness is getting in the way… If you fail to motivate, inspire and organise your players and do not give them the right instructions… you’re going to fail. The opposition are going to kill you… embarrass you…. how much more of this can we tolerate? There is no light…no signs of hope or improvement… You need tangible evidence or signs to give you any hope/optimism/positivity but when it’s the same old shit or even worse(!) every time…. then it’s completely justified to lose that and have no faith in this manager or team while the guy in charge is proving to be so inept. Who is responsible? The manager! Always/ultimately the manager… Especially in our situation. I have no doubt at all that a competent one would get a hell of a lot more out of this squad and make the right additions to improve the team. I know we’re not going to agree, but I can’t see it any other way. It’s been long enough…. I’m tired man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts