Steven Gerrard

[osmark86]

2 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Exactly. He's also persisting with a formation that clearly doesn't work which again points to the fact that he thinks he's right and it's the players not the manager. It was the same at Rangers, anytime something went wrong it was the players that went under the bus. 

I haven't really heard anything that would be called "throwing players under the bus". When we slipped like bambis against Wolves he even made a self-deprecating joke about himself to remove some of the blame from his players.

He has said that he's assessing the squad and looking to see which players he believes cut it ahead of the summer transfer window. I see no problem with this. The players should fight for their places imo.

[osmark86]

Just now, The Fun Factory said:

I have said it before but Smith has been the only coach for years at Villa who actually improved several players during his time at the club.

Smith did a fantastic job for us and during his time I thought some of the criticisms against him were absolutely bonkers. Maybe we should give Gerrard some of the same benefit of the doubt a lot of us were willing to give Smith too.

[El Segundo]

46 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

And yet you’ve written off Steven Gerrard’s ability to do this after 20 games?…

So how many games is the right number to judge him on?  How many games would it take to judge a manager that isn't Gerrard, such as Hassenhuttl who we were supposedly interested in? Sherwood got 28 games including the cup run, Garde got 23, De Matteo 12.  All considered long enough to know they weren't up to it and never would be despite all inheriting squads that were a shower of shite compared to what Gerrard's inherited.   Those are extreme examples perhaps but the point is that after 20 games and a transfer window  I think it's enough to expect to see some progress or to have doubts. 

A good coach can and should be expected to make any squad greater than the sum of it's parts.  Gerrard isn't doing that and he appears to be blaming the players for it.  Being one of the greatest players of his generation doesn't make him a good coach.  Being able to attract Coutinho based on his reputation doesn't make him a good coach.  If he gets more of that ilk in based on his reputation it still won't make him a good coach. 

Displaying some tactical nous and flexibility, motivating the players to excel,  making us hard to beat, improving our ball retention and movement -  those are the mark of a good coach and are the kind of things I hoped and expected to see some evidence of after 20 games.  I want to believe in Gerrard but if we are not seeing those traits now I'm not convinced  we ever will.

[osmark86]

4 minutes ago, El Segundo said:

So how many games is the right number to judge him on?  How many games would it take to judge a manager that isn't Gerrard, such as Hassenhuttl who we were supposedly interested in? Sherwood got 28 games including the cup run, Garde got 23, De Matteo 12.  All considered long enough to know they weren't up to it and never would be despite all inheriting squads that were a shower of shite compared to what Gerrard's inherited.   Those are extreme examples perhaps but the point is that after 20 games and a transfer window  I think it's enough to expect to see some progress or to have doubts. 

A good coach can and should be expected to make any squad greater than the sum of it's parts.  Gerrard isn't doing that and he appears to be blaming the players for it.  Being one of the greatest players of his generation doesn't make him a good coach.  Being able to attract Coutinho based on his reputation doesn't make him a good coach.  If he gets more of that ilk in based on his reputation it still won't make him a good coach. 

Displaying some tactical nous and flexibility, motivating the players to excel,  making us hard to beat, improving our ball retention and movement -  those are the mark of a good coach and are the kind of things I hoped and expected to see some evidence of after 20 games.  I want to believe in Gerrard but if we are not seeing those traits now I'm not convinced  we ever will.

All of those coaches performed significantly worse than what Gerrard has produced so far. Sherwood had a pre-season with the squad and a transfer window, and I believe De Matteo had the same if my memory doesn't fail me. Garde had to deal with the worst season in our recent history where we had basically already capitulated so it's a bit of an extreme case.

20 games is not a long time imo. Let's just be patient and at least give him a summer of transfers and a full pre-season.

edit: for what it's worth I think we potentially pulled the trigger on De Matteo a little too early imo.

Edited April 20, 2022 by osmark86

[Villa_Vids]

What do we want in the coming seasons? I want more than developing individuals who will eventually leave after we have built the world around them. This next phase isn't necessarily about developing players, it is about us developing a team that can move us up the table and back into Europe. That is what Gerrard wants, and I share his opinion. We require a strong "team", not sitting 15th and developing Ramsey for Man City - I am sick to death of being that club. This might mean - more short term, ready made players to get quick results. So be it.

For argument's sake, I think Cash & Ramsey have kicked on under Gerrard but it has only been a few months. It is unfair to judge Gerrard's five months vs Smith's three years. I think we will need to be patient to see the fruits of Gerrard's coaching/management, five months is far too short.

[messi11]

We should give Gerrard at least the Leicester and Norwich game. But if he dont bring back any points its goodnight Birmingham canals 

[villabromsgrove]

I'm a life long Villa supporter and I'm an optimist, so I sometimes wonder why I continue to browse on VT on a daily basis.

For the first time in a long time we have owners who have a long term plan and the wealth to fund it. We have a manager whose name alone will attract players who would not normally give Villa a second glance.

Gerrard is key to bringing in the players that we desperately need.

I know that we are a long way from where we need to be, but I'm excited by the journey on which our owners and management want to take us.

I feel genuinely sorry for "fans" who let their personal agendas override the unstinting support and patience that the club needs from them. 

Up the Villa!

 

[The Fun Factory]

6 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I'm a life long Villa supporter and I'm an optimist

I don't believe you.

What sort of sorcery is this?

Edited April 20, 2022 by The Fun Factory

[villabromsgrove]

18 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

I don't believe you.

What sort of sorcery is this?

It's true, lol .... I support Villa win, lose or draw. My philosophy is simple. If we lose this match, there's always the next game. Losing doesn't kill me any more, and winning is a huge buzz. Villa is in my blood.

Being almost guaranteed wins like Man City and Liverpool must be boring. I enjoy the challenge and the uncertainty, because when we win it's immense.

[WHY]

8 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

It's true, lol .... I support Villa win, lose or draw. My philosophy is simple. If we lose this match, there's always the next game. Losing doesn't kill me any more, and winning is a huge buzz. Villa is in my blood.

Being almost guaranteed wins like Man City and Liverpool must be boring. I enjoy the challenge and the uncertainty, because when we win it's immense.

Fair play, wish it didn’t bother me when we lose to be honest, it bothers me that it bothers me so much. 

[Peter Griffin]

10 hours ago, villa89 said:

Exactly. He's also persisting with a formation that clearly doesn't work which again points to the fact that he thinks he's right and it's the players not the manager. It was the same at Rangers, anytime something went wrong it was the players that went under the bus. 

I certainly hope our manager, whether it is SG or otherwise believes they are right with what they are trying to do. It would be idiotic to employ or keep a manger that did not believe in what they are doing on the training pitch. Yes, SG or any manager needs to learn from how things are going but he must believe in himself and what he is doing.

[Vincenzo]

 

Look, I don’t want to be negative but from the moment Dean Smith was sacked I have thought the same:

Why did we sack a Villa till I die manager for a replacement who is Premier league unproven and basically a gamble and not an upgrade 

We are a stepping stone for him..end of imo

Still, he is our manager now and I’ll support him and his backroom staff but I  do fear the worst if I’m honest

Hopefully I’m wrong and he proves me massively wrong

Loyalty is a quality often underrated unfortunately 

UTV

[Tom13]

3 minutes ago, Vincenzo said:

 

Look, I don’t want to be negative but from the moment Dean Smith was sacked I have thought the same:

Why did we sack a Villa till I die manager for a replacement who is Premier league unproven and basically a gamble and not an upgrade 

We are a stepping stone for him..end of imo

Still, he is our manager now and I’ll support him and his backroom staff but I  do fear the worst if I’m honest

Hopefully I’m wrong and he proves me massively wrong

Loyalty is a quality often underrated unfortunately 

UTV

He's only on a 'stepping stone' to League 1 under his current performance and decision making.

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

He's only on a 'stepping stone' to League 1 under his current performance and decision making.

Its just like looking at Arteta from the last year. Questionable selections, questionable tactics, very questionable transfers and questionable coaching ability. The only difference appears to be that the majority of Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked and it only appears to be the minority of Villa fans want Gerrard sacked.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Peter Griffin

[VillaParkAvenue]

51 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Its just like looking at Arteta from the last year. Questionable selections, questionable tactics, very questionable transfers and questionable coaching ability. The only difference appears to be that the majority of Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked and it only appears to be the minority of Villa fans want Gerrard sacked.

Comparing Gerrard to Arteta could be bang on if we’re talking Arteta from last season, the bloke who signed Willian and gave Aubameyang a three year extension  

[VillanousOne]

not mean to be a loaded question but after our second 'mini preseason'

will anyone be p****d off, if Gerrard puts out the same 11 that lost to Spurs.

or do you think he should and will persist with the same players.

on a different note, we are now below Newcastle... let that sink in

[MrBlack]

Smith had terrible luck with fitness during his last few months with us. If he'd had the team that Gerrard has, I reckon we'd be better off over him.  That said, he's more experienced than Gerrard, so you'd expect him to be better, and there is zero chance Courtinho would have joined us if Smith was at the helm.

I was on the fence about whether replacing Dean with Gerrard was a good call....and I still am. It's not looking promising so far, but he's got this transfer window and the start of next season to win me over. I hope he does.

 

[GingerCollins29]

50 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I don't think judging SG's success or failure should be part of a discussion on why Deano was sacked. The reason, I assume, that Deano was sacked is because he was averaging a point per game since the start of the year, he had lost 5 in a row and we were starting to dangerously flirt with relegation. CP and NSWE clearly believed that was not good enough and they sacked him. It is a completely different debate as to whether their replacement manager was a good selection or not. 

It was absolutely the right choice to get rid of smith. The point is that we had the opportunity to get ahead by appointing a better manager. Right now, SG is not a better manager, its looking like a failed appointment. I hope he turns it round but i dont think he will. I also think he'll get far more time than any other guy we could have had because he is a media darling, Purslows mate and purslows job could potentially be on the line if gerrard fails

[Keyblade]

33 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Do we have a Tuchel Level alternative available?

If we do, then by all means sack Gerrard and sign him up!

* Lampard , Chelsea, and Aston Villa, Gerrard are totally different scenarios altogether if we are being honest. This would be more relevant if Gerrard was at Liverpool " failing " and this was a Liverpool forum.

 

I don't know about now, but when we signed Gerrard...on a Villa scale? Probably. Lucien Favre was available as just one example off the top of my head. I'm sure our pool of options were a lot more accomplished than Gerrard, with all due respect to our gaffer. We seem to be buying into potential though, which is a curious route to take at this stage in our progress under this ownership, but I hope it works out.

[Woody1000]

3 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said:

It was absolutely the right choice to get rid of smith. The point is that we had the opportunity to get ahead by appointing a better manager. Right now, SG is not a better manager, its looking like a failed appointment. I hope he turns it round but i dont think he will. I also think he'll get far more time than any other guy we could have had because he is a media darling, Purslows mate and purslows job could potentially be on the line if gerrard fails

Not that I am saying that we have got the managerial appointment wrong as I don’t believe we have, but surely the only way that Purslow would be in trouble over this would be by giving Gerrard too much time as apposed to not enough?

I don’t buy this narrative that CP is going to let him have as much time as he wants through fear that his job is on the line if Gerrard fails.

I think unless we only pick up 5 points or under from our remaining fixtures (or similar scenarios that resulted in a poor bottom half finish), then SG will get a preseason and I think he’ll get at least 3 months or so of the new season (possibly up to the break for the WC even?), but I have no doubts that if we find ourselves in a similar position to what we found ourselves in this season, then Purslow will sack him regardless of whether he is his ‘mate’ or not.