Steven Gerrard

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I don't think people are referring to his grammar, punctuation and literature skills when they say this. lol

They are probably referring to how natural, honest and sturdy he comes across, as well as having some banter.

Modern " British " Footballers, Managers and Footballing English isn't good in the first place to begin with.

I know that, it wasn't specifically a point on his grammar. I probably shouldn't have made it by quoting that post.

Based on people I have met in my personal and professional life I still disagree he is that good.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

yeah, I get that....but I think CP is taken by SG's personal drive and ambition, and winning mentality,  he's new and shiny and can build his managerial reputation with us.....There's no old baggage.

How long did it take SAF? at United to rebuild them.....sure, I'm not expecting it to be that long, but blimey, 20 games is a joke.

It maybe hard to see past these recent results and I get that too.....but I choose to have faith in the man, and I think he will come through with flying colours.

 

Fair enough.

As I have said the results this season for Stevie G don t concern me as much as the actions I think he will take in the summer (IMO of course) 

I thought  he would (And indeed he still may) Add to the current squad in the 'building on it ' sense. If its a complete rip up and start over I really don't believe thats the way forward or necessary.

 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, hippo said:

Fair enough.

As I have said the results this season for Stevie G don t concern me as much as the actions I think he will take in the summer (IMO of course) 

I thought  he would (And indeed he still may) Add to the current squad in the 'building on it ' sense. If its a complete rip up and start over I really don't believe thats the way forward or necessary.

 

Hippo.....I honestly believe, with a few of the right players in the right positions, will affect the others in a positive way and some players, we have lost faith in, their form will come back.

That is the extent, I believe these issues have caused us.

I honestly thought he would have had more impact in the area's of motivation, but maybe, I was expecting too much.

I don't think it will be a complete rip up....but I do think a significant turn around is on the cards.

The results, do concern me, because its the main objective, of why we do what we do....I always think when a team has a reputation of knowing how to win.....it covers a multitude of good, positive things.

sadly, we are easy to beat....and that has the opposite effect.

right now, its hard to see past faith......but I believe we will come through all this, but maybe not until next season.

[BOF]

1 hour ago, Tom13 said:

'More clearer' 

Be kind. It's not his native tongue.

[blandy]

There have been pages of off-topic posts (about Thomas Tuchel, Eddie Howe, Newcastle, Brentford Youth v Villa at the weekend,...) all nothing to do with Steven Gerrard.

Stay on topic please.

Use other threads for Newcastle/ Brentford/ Team selections and all the rest.

Any posters derailing the thread again can expect warning points to accumulate.

[hippo]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I don't think people are referring to his grammar, punctuation and literature skills when they say this. lol

They are probably referring to how natural, honest and sturdy he comes across, as well as having some banter.

Modern " British " Footballers, Managers and Footballing English isn't good in the first place to begin with.

Do you not think he comes across as a bit of one trick pony ?

'im right, your wrong, end of' 

Brian Clough could get away with that as he got it right very often. Sure SG in the short term can marginalize a player or two. But the enemies you create can easily come back to bite you in the ass.

 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, hippo said:

Do you not think he comes across as a bit of one trick pony ?

Only " From Afar " 

[Tom13]

18 minutes ago, hippo said:

Do you not think he comes across as a bit of one trick pony ?

'im right, your wrong, end of' 

Brian Clough could get away with that as he got it right very often. Sure SG in the short term can marginalize a player or two. But the enemies you create can easily come back to bite you in the ass.

 

 

Yeah, Gerrard's interviews have become very old very quickly, tbf though, most managers interviews do.

I am sick of hearing 'individually and collectively' every two minutes though!

Edited April 19, 2022 by Tom13

[CVByrne]

Who knows how we would be performing if we managed to get in a Central Midfielder in the January window. 

The club lost its talisman and captain in Jack and he was an incredible on pitch leader always wanting the ball and helping his team. We had Bailey and Buendia added to the squad to replace him and they had injuries and needed time to adapt to the League and new team etc..

Watkins hasn't been in the form he was last season and Ings hasn't been either. Both our CFs are better than they've shown we all know that. These are problems added to our unbalanced Midfield that has been a problem all season under Dean and Gerrard. 

It's really really frustrating but that's the way it is. If we get the right players in we can improve significantly next season. The key is getting those players and to get them we need to show more in our final games than we have in the last 10. 

[Peter Griffin]

3 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I'm constantly baffled when people talk about how exceptionally he interviews. He's not the worst public speaker I've seen by a long shot, but notably impressive? Not for me. Particularly when you consider he has been trained his whole career for it. He also lets himself get a bit too rattled on occasion and can't help getting personal with journalists, like with the female reporter in Scotland.

The guys power comes from what we and, more importantly, our squad know of him as a player. Players have even described him as a presence that says next to nothing, with Beale being the one to communicate ideas.

I suspect people that complement him on his interview skills are referring to the message he delivers and the points he highlights and not his oratory skills. 

[Sam-AVFC]

7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I suspect people that complement him on his interview skills are referring to the message he delivers and the points he highlights and not his oratory skills. 

I suspect they are. I never said you need to use big words or flowery language to communicate well anyway. It's all about getting a message across.

I simply haven't heard enough personally for some of the praise he gets for his interviews to make sense. As I said in this thread earlier, he's definitely not one of the worst communicators. 

It's not a dig at him at all, just me pointing out that I perceive it completely differently from some. Because lets be honest, it's not like the interviews actually matter.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I suspect they are. I never said you need to use big words or flowery language to communicate well anyway. It's all about getting a message across.

I simply haven't heard enough personally for some of the praise he gets for his interviews to make sense. As I said in this thread earlier, he's definitely not one of the worst communicators. 

It's not a dig at him at all, just me pointing out that I perceive it completely differently from some. Because lets be honest, it's not like the interviews actually matter.

I sort of categorise managers interview skills into 4 groups. First groups is lots of charisma and take no shyte type manager that is not afraid to be controversial in an interview e.g. Jose at Chelsea & SAF. I used to love their interviews. Then there is the denial and BS and blame everyone interview e.g. Bruce, his interviews are god damn awful. The third group is the manager that speaks fairly honestly and openly about the team and the performance and doesn't hide behind excuses, I put SG in this group. Then the last group are the managers you just don't understand and need an interpreter, such as Bielsa and Lambert, these interviews are just boring. 

[Dale]

7 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

This is 100% correct.But you cant put the blame on a manager that is using another managers team/players.

I think you can. The role of the coach is to work with the players he has, improve them and maximise their talent. If they can't do that with one set of players it's quite indicative that they won't be doing it with another. As always I'll ask has Cooper at Forest moaned about working with Hughton's players, did Rogers at Swansea and Leicester bemoan the players he landed with? Frank and Dean at Brentford when they lost their best players year after year? Marsch at Leeds (and that squad is very poor)? 

Gerrard's job regardless of any signings is to maximise what he has. Can't do that, check out, this isn't the gig for you. When you're allowed to sign Coutinho and get worse questions have to be asked about your ability to do your job, which isn't signing players (the 90s are behind us now)! 

[Dale]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

Its a valid point, but

The only difference there is, the players were bought primarily under Dean's Stewardship for Deans system......SG has inherited them and wants to play a different way and it seems the players have trouble adapting.

Perhaps it was hopelessly naive of Gerrard to take a job if he can't work with a group of players and make them better, is it poor communication? Bad coaching? Bad setup for the squad he has? 

It makes him look a bit poor as a nascent Premier League coach. 

Sign world class players is a wonderful, if a far fetched route to success... He's going to have to at some point improve players. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Dale

[baldivisvilla]

6 hours ago, Dale said:

Perhaps it was hopelessly naive of Gerrard to take a job if he can't work with a group of players and make them better, is it poor communication? Bad coaching? Bad setup for the squad he has? 

It makes him look a bit poor as a nascent Premier League coach. 

Sign world class players is a wonderful, if a far fetched route to success... He's going to have to at some point improve players. 

What if a number of those players are at their limit. Maybe a number of our squad are lower to mid premier league standard. I think it's a fallacy that it's just accepted you should be able to improve with coaching.

[Dale]

3 hours ago, baldivisvilla said:

What if a number of those players are at their limit. Maybe a number of our squad are lower to mid premier league standard. I think it's a fallacy that it's just accepted you should be able to improve with coaching.

I give to you Brendan Rogers Swansea. The players is that squad were not good enough for the league by and large - the coaching made them better than the sum of their parts. Individuals even got moves to Chelsea/Liverpool etc. off the back of it, because they were made to look better than they were by the quality of the coach (their careers did not kick on from there), Wayne Routledge looked like a convincing Premier league talent. I suppose the argument that you're making is that there is no such thing as a coach that can get more than the sum of the players, that's just not true - at times Dean did for extended runs. Dyche has for years and years. Rogers has year on year at Leicester (until this season), did at Swansea too, Hodgson got Fulham to Uefa Cup final (having qualified the season after saving them from relegation). Bielsa was doing so getting and keeping a poor Leeds side up (and getting them top ten).

If Gerrard's answer as a coach is 'the players aren't good enough for me' - he's abdicating responsibility. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Dale

[osmark86]

I can see the point that a manager should be able to do the best with what he's got and to some extent I agree with this point. I also think that 20 odd games really isn't long enough to judge someone on their job. I just don't want us to become a club that tosses aside managers like trash à la Watford. People thought that Arteta was a fraud last season, but with some minor tweaks it's looking quite good for him this season. There are examples of the opposite happening too, like Sheffield United under Chris Wilder. Point being that we don't really know at this point how things will go.

I have seen some good and some bad with Gerrard so far and that's enough for me to be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for next season. Had it been absolute chaos like under Sherwood that would be a different story for me, but I've seen nothing of the sort. I have however seen some of the same problems as we had under Dean Smith (whose tenure I absolutely loved btw). We are still lightweight in the midfield, we still have a tendency to only show up for 45 minutes in games and we still have a tendency to drop heads when the going gets tough. This makes me think that we might have to do some re-shuffling in the squad to excel more as a club. After all it's up to the players to deliver on matchday as they're the ones kicking the ball.

[Woody1000]

19 minutes ago, Dale said:

I give to you Brendan Rogers Swansea. The players is that squad were not good enough for the league by and large - the coaching made them better than the sum of their parts. Individuals even got moves to Chelsea/Liverpool etc. off the back of it, because they were made to look better than they were by the quality of the coach (their careers did not kick on from there), Wayne Routledge looked like a convincing Premier league talent. I suppose the argument that you're making is that there is no such thing as a coach that can get more than the sum of the players, that's just not true - at times Dean did for extended runs. Dyche has for years and years. Rogers has year on year at Leicester (until this season), did at Swansea too, Hodgson got Fulham to Uefa Cup final (having qualified the season after saving them from relegation). Bielsa was doing so getting and keeping a poor Leeds side up (and getting them top ten).

If Gerrard's answer as a coach is 'the players aren't good enough for me' - he's abdicating responsibility. 

And yet you’ve written off Steven Gerrard’s ability to do this after 20 games?…

[villa89]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

If Gerrard's answer as a coach is 'the players aren't good enough for me' - he's abdicating responsibility. 

Exactly. He's also persisting with a formation that clearly doesn't work which again points to the fact that he thinks he's right and it's the players not the manager. It was the same at Rangers, anytime something went wrong it was the players that went under the bus. 

[The Fun Factory]

I have said it before but Smith has been the only coach for years at Villa who actually improved several players during his time at the club.