January Transfer Window - 2022

[TRO]

23 hours ago, CVByrne said:

We don't want to pay what it takes for one basically

As anxious as I am to sign one.....I have a suspicion the club did right.

 

23 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

That's a slightly different perspective from you think.

In terms of our midfield and its defending you've highlighted a couple of our strengths; we are tenacious, we get after people, we buzz around and close things down well and we have players in our midfield who can start attacks from deep Luiz, McGinn, Sanson and Ramsey are all capable of that. 

Where we lack is a little in terms of strength, someone who can run with a good sized striker, compete with someone the size of McTominay physically, someone who can make a difference in defending set pieces - in short a big un.

The chasing stuff, the harrying stuff, the football stuff, conducting the orchestra - that's what we're good at.

Oddly for both of us, from your post above it sounds like you want a player like Douglas Luiz and I want a six foot three destroyer - I'm sure that's not how we usually do this! 

 

 

its odd, because your interpretation is at odds, with mine....or I have set it out, inadvertently to be misinterpreted, one of the two.

Douglas Luiz is many things, but tenacious, he is not....not consistently anyway, maybe a random 10 minutes in a game, on the whole he is passive, in his execution.

I agree about the strength and defending set pieces, I think Calum Chambers could help with that.....but yes, a big un, would come in handy.

The chasing stuff,etc  is what we spend our best 45 minutes doing and the passive bit is the other 45 minutes, which is what concerns me.

I thought, in my posts, I have made it clear, what I want at No6 and Bissouma would have fitted that bill, albeit £50 mill, I think the club is right to baulk.....Douglas Luiz is not a comparison to Yves Bissouma, different types of player.

so No, Douglas is not the TYPE player I want at No6.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by TRO

[MentalM]

Perspective is fun:

Everyone else: Villa clear winners of transfer window

Villa fans: Not at all happy since we didnt get a DM and loaned out Targett

 

Personally think the window has been very good, even if I wanted us to get a DM. Targett probably out so he can keep market value and be moved on this summer. Shame since I like the guy 

[TRO]

My view on our business this window, is very good.......One window at our stage, doesn't fix all ills, but we have made significant strides, forward.

Despite my frustration at not securing a CDM...I believe the club did its best under the circumstances.

I think c£50 mill for Yves Bissouma, is a clear message, they didn't want to sell....and why should we just spunk £25 mill out, to make an alternative signing, in Bentancur....who most of us know nothing about.

I want the club to be sure what its buying and I am all for further work from the scouts to find an alternative.

Some of the best defensive midfielders around, have been picked up from relative obscurity.....Bissouma,Ndidi, Kante....Rice was a reject from Chelsea's academy

Its only when they are established, that the fee soars.....These type of players can be found at much lower prices, if we seek them at source....albeit, more of a gamble granted.

France do seem to unearth them from Africa, better than most, maybe something we can tap in to, or get better at.

CDM is an important position to the discerning eye, but its not like a striker, where its easier to appraise, due to goals scored, being the main measurement.....a quality CDM is harder to spot, in the early days, subsequently easier to buy at a  more modest price.

I think Villa are right to keep their powder dry, and be more cautious in getting the right man.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TRO

[KMitch]

25 minutes ago, MentalM said:

Perspective is fun:

Everyone else: Villa clear winners of transfer window

Villa fans: Not at all happy since we didnt get a DM and loaned out Targett

 

Personally think the window has been very good, even if I wanted us to get a DM. Targett probably out so he can keep market value and be moved on this summer. Shame since I like the guy 

This Summer:  Ings, Buendia, Bailey, & Young for Grealish -> Everyone else thought we were ambitious and had a brilliant window.  VillaTalk?  Moaning because Smith didn't get a DM

This January:  Coutinho, Digne, Olsen (On Loan), & Chambers while loaning fringe players out -> Everyone else blown away with our business and thought we had a brilliant window.  VillaTalk?  Moaning because Smith--I mean Gerrard, didn't get a DM...

[VillaJ100]

15 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Are we not trying to be one of the apparent 'scum six'. What will your view be if NSWE are successful with buying their way (450m in a few year) and using FFP loopholes (selling Villa Park) and we manage to join the top tier in the PL?

I don't have a problem with the owners spending their own money to bring the club where they want to be. Because of FFP they aren't allowed to do this. 

[villabromsgrove]

I was surprised and delighted when we signed Coutinho on loan.

I was gobsmacked when we signed Digne permanently.

I didn't see either of these moves happening.

I was happy with the Olsen signing as I've always thought that Steer struggled to cover the posts sufficiently.

I was blindsided by the Chambers signing, that was another one that I couldn't have guessed at in a month of Sundays.

Now that the window is closed I am satisfied with who we brought in, and the reasoning behind it all.

It makes sense both financially and tactically. I guess we'll learn from Gerrard the reason for not signing an expensive "defensive rock". Was it money, or was it the fact that he prefers to play a different type of midfield?

To recap, we've brought in creative talent, an athletic, technical attacking wing back, an experienced big cover keeper, and a utility defensive player who can cover as right CB, RB and can play as a strong central holding midfielder.

I think we've had a good transfer window. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

AEG, Trez and Guilberts contracts expire in June 2023. We'll get over £15m combined for the three of them this summer. They have ~£6m left in amortisation. So we should book a £10m+ profit straight into next years accounts and save £5.6m in their salary. We should  be booking more prize money from a top 10 finish and new sponsorship deal to boot. 

Targett is worth £20mil, he'll do great at Newcastle and something like £16m + 4m add ons. Newcastle will pay that, he's a solid mid table LB in a defensive orientated back 4. He's always fit and he he was very reliable in that 4 2 3 1 system.

If we sold him for that we'd book a sizable profit. He has ~£5.25m of remaining amortisation left so we'd book an instant £10m profit + more in add ons.

We're looking at around an extra £30m boost in next years accounts from these. That's enough for two new £40mil+ signings including wages (as at end of next season we're getting rid of the loss making seasons back with promotion and escaping relegation + covid).

This is before we think of sales, like Hause, Davis, Luiz, Nakamaba, Luiz, Cash, Traore.

If we sign a new CB to compete with Mings we'll listen to offers for Hause surely. If we sign Coutinho, Chukwuemeka signs a new contract and Bailey is firing in second half of the season, we'll take offers for Traore. I can see a big summer with profit making on existing squad facilitating a step up kind of signing (2 record transfers??)

Our payroll has increased significantly since last year. Gerrard, Ings, Bailey, Buendia, Digne and not to forget Coutinhao are all very high earners. Furthermore, we have renewed some contracts which gave pay rises to McGinn and Konsa (anyone else renew?) and the potential to renew Doug's contract which means another pay rise. We also have Gerrard's sizeable backroom team to pay too.  We are not talking small change here, this is easily between 10m & 20m increase in our costs. We need to pay the bills before we jump into spending cash received from transfers. The cash received from these potential transfers will already be forecast and added to budgets

[CVByrne]

Thinking about the Central holdong midfielder role. I assume Bissouma in Luiz out this window was the only scenario the club were thinking. Brighton weren't interested in doing a deal at any reasonable price. Bentancur it seems was wanted at the right price but we didn't want to do it for 25m total that Spurs ended up paying. 

If we can tie Luiz down to a new contract and Nakamba comes back for the last two months of football their values will be protected. Both will be worth more this summer than they were last summer. We can then focus on a Bissouma, Kalvin Phillips type signing while being happy to do a deal at the right price for Luiz, Sanson or Nakamba. 

If we signed Bentancur I think the view was to add him to the squad with Luiz staying too. Bentancur has no Prem experience so he can't just land in and play like Digne has done. Where Bissouma was one who can just go into the team meaning a Luiz could be sold. 

So when you think about the Bentancur deal, I can see why we didn't up the bid to match what Juve wanted. It would cost us potentially Luiz signing a new contract and Nakamba would not get any game time. We would then be deciding to do what exactly in summer with that Bissouma / Phillips level player?

I think I'm on the side of let's go with what we've got. Focus on Luiz and Chukwuemeka contracts instead of signing another midfielder to compete with them for now.

[CVByrne]

4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Our payroll has increased significantly since last year. Gerrard, Ings, Bailey, Buendia, Digne and not to forget Coutinhao are all very high earners. Furthermore, we have renewed some contracts which gave pay rises to McGinn and Konsa (anyone else renew?) and the potential to renew Doug's contract which means another pay rise. We also have Gerrard's sizeable backroom team to pay too.  We are not talking small change here, this is easily between 10m & 20m increase in our costs. We need to pay the bills before we jump into spending cash received from transfers. The cash received from these potential transfers will already be forecast and added to budgets

Yes but each year we move forward means a terrible FFP year from the dark Championship days leaves our books.

Also when we signed extensions to contracts, yes we pay more in salary but we also lower the remaining annual amortisation costs from their transfer fees too. So in FFP calcs it could appear as an annual saving in total (but spread over the longer time of their new contract). 

We pay our bills because the owners are bankrolling the club for any financial shortfalls. Their aim is to inject capital year on year to transform the club into a team who regularly compete for the top 6. Our income grows with that plan, as the higher league places, march day revenue, sponsorship etc. comes with that.

We will also see the fruits of the academy in coming years, either via sales of players who don't make it to our first team or in reduced average wage bill / transfer fees due to players making the first team. 

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaJ100 said:

I don't have a problem with the owners spending their own money to bring the club where they want to be. Because of FFP they aren't allowed to do this. 

but its still a problem, albeit not ours directly, but indirectly, it could be.

Let me explain my view.............We have fabulous owners and to date they have been ambitious in their dealings all along the way...They are up beat and full of ambitious idea's.

In the circles they operate in, business decisions are their buzz, its what makes them what they are, amongst other things of course, they want to win games like we do....Losing money is a turn off for them, like losing games is for us.

Sure they don't run and hide at the first sign of a deal goining sour, but in the main their drive comes from successful dealing.....winning football games is a huge part of that.

If they kept losing money on player transfers,as just one example, they would soon get fed up and their mood would change, where that goes, is anyones guess.....so my point is, we need to deal well, irrespective of who's money it is, because it all reflects back on the club and us.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by TRO

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Yes but each year we move forward means a terrible FFP year from the dark Championship days leaves our books.

Also when we signed extensions to contracts, yes we pay more in salary but we also lower the remaining annual amortisation costs from their transfer fees too. So in FFP calcs it could appear as an annual saving in total (but spread over the longer time of their new contract). 

We pay our bills because the owners are bankrolling the club for any financial shortfalls. Their aim is to inject capital year on year to transform the club into a team who regularly compete for the top 6. Our income grows with that plan, as the higher league places, march day revenue, sponsorship etc. comes with that.

We will also see the fruits of the academy in coming years, either via sales of players who don't make it to our first team or in reduced average wage bill / transfer fees due to players making the first team. 

 

I get that extending the contracts reduces the annual amortisation but it just pushes it to another year, it is not a financial benefit to us and it will impact future years P&L. That said it is a fairly minimal amount. It doesn't take away from the fact that our costs are Skyrocketing and we should not be looking at sales revenue as an excuse to spend more money. This is the last year we have the Championship P&L as part of our FFP, but that just means we are allowed to lose more money, which means we can spend more but it is still not healthy for a business. NSWE have stated (via Purslow) that their aim to to make the club sustainable, their aim is not to inject capital year on year. If that was their aim I would be very concerned with them as our custodians. Being sustainable means that the club is self sufficient and does not need year on year cash injections. Our transfers net spend in the last 12 months is close to sustainable and yet we are still improving our squad. This is what we need to continue to try and achieve.

[Peter Griffin]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

If they kept losing money on player transfers,as just one example, they would soon get fed up and their mood would change, where that goes, is anyones guess.....so my point is, we need to deal well, irrespective of who's money it is, because it all reflects back on the club and us.

 

This, 100%. As per my comment above. NSWE have said their aim is sustainability. 

[TRO]

59 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I was surprised and delighted when we signed Coutinho on loan.

I was gobsmacked when we signed Digne permanently.

I didn't see either of these moves happening.

I was happy with the Olsen signing as I've always thought that Steer struggled to cover the posts sufficiently.

I was blindsided by the Chambers signing, that was another one that I couldn't have guessed at in a month of Sundays.

Now that the window is closed I am satisfied with who we brought in, and the reasoning behind it all.

It makes sense both financially and tactically. I guess we'll learn from Gerrard the reason for not signing an expensive "defensive rock". Was it money, or was it the fact that he prefers to play a different type of midfield?

To recap, we've brought in creative talent, an athletic, technical attacking wing back, an experienced big cover keeper, and a utility defensive player who can cover as right CB, RB and can play as a strong central holding midfielder.

I think we've had a good transfer window. 

ditto

I have no idea Brian, but I don't think its anything to do with style or tactics....I think SG sees the value in such a player.

He gleans a lot from Brendan Rodgers and he knows how successful, Ndidi is for them......He had Glen Kamara at Rangers too....He played alongside Henderson too.

He himself switched in his twilight times at Liverpool, to a holding midfield role and was well aware of the varying attributes required to do that job.

I think its more about, a combination of factors:

• Is Dougie that bad there......No
• Can Calum Chambers, add value there....possibly
• Is £45-50 mill too much.....I would say ,yes.
• Is Bentancur nailed on......I would say, No
• Was it worth taking another risk.....No

We will never know, the real reasons, but judging by the business they have already done, it strikes me, they know what they are doing.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by TRO

[OLDVILLAIN]

Listen we had a great January window..in fairness it was much better than I had expected.

Fans moaning about who we did and did not bring in this window is par for the course around here.

Signing off  until the next Moan-athon in the summer

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

ditto

I have no idea Brian, but I don't think its anything to do with style or tactics....I think SG sees the value in such a player.

He gleans a lot from Brendan Rodgers and he knows how succesful, Ndidi is for them......He had Glen Kamara at Rangers too....He played alongside Henderson too.

He himself switched in his twilight times at Liverpool, to a holding midfield and was well aware of the varying attributes required to do that job.

I think its more about, a combination of factors:

• Is Dougie that bad there......No
• Can Calum Chambers, add value there....possibly
• Is £45-50 mill too much.....I would say ,yes.
• Is Bentancur nailed on......I would say, No
• Was it worth taking another risk.....No

We will never know, the real reasons, but judging by the business they have already done, it strikes me, they know what they are doing.

 

 

Gerrards first transfer window is a very good one considering it is January. I can’t wait l to see who we bring in in the summer. Pretty sure the defensive rock in the middle that many are crying out for will join us early on. 

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I get that extending the contracts reduces the annual amortisation but it just pushes it to another year, it is not a financial benefit to us and it will impact future years P&L. That said it is a fairly minimal amount. It doesn't take away from the fact that our costs are Skyrocketing and we should not be looking at sales revenue as an excuse to spend more money. This is the last year we have the Championship P&L as part of our FFP, but that just means we are allowed to lose more money, which means we can spend more but it is still not healthy for a business. NSWE have stated (via Purslow) that their aim to to make the club sustainable, their aim is not to inject capital year on year. If that was their aim I would be very concerned with them as our custodians. Being sustainable means that the club is self sufficient and does not need year on year cash injections. Our transfers net spend in the last 12 months is close to sustainable and yet we are still improving our squad. This is what we need to continue to try and achieve.

I agree Pete.

If we can continue to make sound decisions in the transfer business ( which is one of the most expensive parts of running a top level club), then future years will only need a top up, as opposed to a nigh on rebuild, every window.

moving from 13th in the championship, is a very expensive shift to where we are and requires much money and Nous, but it won't require such an investment moving forward.

Such a huge transformation had to take place and the academy being an important feature of that too.

Sustainabilty has to be the goal and the owners are right to claim this as one of their objectives.....Their cash injections have to cease at some stage, where their risk also decreases in tandem.

We have a way to go, but the right road, seems to be, what we are on.

[TRO]

The big thing for me, now is,I trust these guys we have in charge.

Every fan will have his/her own idea of who they wanted.....thats inevitable, but there are so many variables to balance out.

I am happy, with what they have done, despite my personal preferences, which we all have.

looking forward, to just getting back to winning football matches.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TRO

[MakemineVanilla]

Massively disappointed not to get Rodrigo Bentancur and sending Targett out on loan looked like an economy measure.

Villa look strong enough to finish halfway but not much more.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Massively disappointed not to get Rodrigo Bentancur and sending Targett out on loan looked like an economy measure.

Villa look strong enough to finish halfway but not much more.

I think on the surface the Targett thing looks strange.....but then I think, its the club caring about the player too and allowing him game time....Economics will always play its part, good housekeeping is essential.

It's clear to me they see Digne as the first choice, but didn't want to put Targetts Nose out of joint either....plus they have a player to possibly sell, (who has game time) at the seasons end.

Young is cover and will stay fit for the rest of the season, to cover, possibly learning the coaching ropes along the way, so no, hound face from him.

I didn't know enough about Bentancur to get too disappointed...they must have their reasons....we don't actually know how much we wanted him?

We just have to wait and see as we have just come through a period of tough games.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by TRO

[Wainy316]

49 minutes ago, OLDVILLAIN said:

Listen we had a great January window..in fairness it was much better than I had expected.

Fans moaning about who we did and did not bring in this window is par for the course around here.

Signing off  until the next Moan-athon in the summer

 

The gaffer is rubbing off on you isn't he